Ebola in the US

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by rodak

Not easy to catch?

And yet hundreds of doctors managed to catch it "many of whom died" presumably wearing protective gear.
Unless I were MOPP-4 equipped I would be very leery about being near anyone with this virus.

Because they were in contact with the feces, blood and vomit of symptomatic people.

The hysteria of the not-remotely-at-risk "worried well" is shameful.

You don't catch Ebola by sitting near someone, just as you don't get HIV from a mosquito bite -- a favorite obsession of the cranky worried well a generation ago.

The medical professionals who've gotten infected have been in direct contact with infectious material from very sick -- and very obviously sick-- people.

They did not get it "on a subway", or because someone sneezed. And they did not get it from folks who weren't acutely symptomatic.

These medical workers are brave, and the cranky civilian obsessing about risks they don't have are cowards, and medically illiterate ones at that. Folks who're obsessing about Ebola will look blankly at you if you ask them "are you afraid of SARS? MERS? Enterovirus D68? Naegleria fowleri?"

There are a lot of rare diseases for which the general public is at statistically zero risk. They're fun as horror stories, but that's the limit of their relevance.

Can I make it any plainer? Its a hard disease to catch. Eric Duncan's family and friends in Dallas, they're all now beyond the incubation period. They were in close contact with Duncan, zero infections. Pham and Vinson's infections occurred in nursing care for an acutely ill, acutely symptomatic patient.

I would not want to do such care without good protective equipment-- but if you're not doing that, then the worry is nil.

[brk549]

Has anybody ever heard of a public restroom?What if the doctor in New York used a public restroom once and didn't either realize he was contagious or didn't care, how many people would be infected by now.What if the guy with the hatchet in New York instead of the hatchet would have been infected and used every public restroom he could get in.I believe the doc was staying out of public as much as he could and we're supposed to fall for the song and dance that everyone will be as careful as he was.It's not that hard to handle with one every two or three days but if it gets to the point of several a day we've had it and telling me don't worry we've got this when obviously they don't isn't making me feel any safer.As far as that goes I don't see how they could have screwed it up any worse.

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by brk549

Has anybody ever heard of a public restroom?What if the doctor in New York used a public restroom once and didn't either realize he was contagious or didn't care, how many people would be infected by now.What if the guy with the hatchet in New York instead of the hatchet would have been infected and used every public restroom he could get in.I believe the doc was staying out of public as much as he could and we're supposed to fall for the song and dance that everyone will be as careful as he was.It's not that hard to handle with one every two or three days but if it gets to the point of several a day we've had it and telling me don't worry we've got this when obviously they don't isn't making me feel any safer.As far as that goes I don't see how they could have screwed it up any worse.

And presumably you think you can catch AIDs off a toilet seat???

[SanteeFats]

Come on guys, certain people will worry about catching stuff like ebola or some other disease. Do not denigrate their fears because they do not understand how it is transmitted. Yes it is a bit ignorant but I think way to many American's are pretty ignorant. Look at what is popular on TV. Stupid crap the reality shows and crap like Honey, thank God it is cancelled, Boo Boo, game shows, etc. A lot of the American people, to my deep dismay, are at best functional idiots.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by brk549

Has anybody ever heard of a public restroom?What if the doctor in New York used a public restroom once and didn't either realize he was contagious or didn't care, how many people would be infected by now.What if the guy with the hatchet in New York instead of the hatchet would have been infected and used every public restroom he could get in.I believe the doc was staying out of public as much as he could and we're supposed to fall for the song and dance that everyone will be as careful as he was.It's not that hard to handle with one every two or three days but if it gets to the point of several a day we've had it and telling me don't worry we've got this when obviously they don't isn't making me feel any safer.As far as that goes I don't see how they could have screwed it up any worse.

A private bathroom would be more dangerous I think, especially if any toileteries are shared, or even towels. But even then, the risk is not that great unless the uninfected person has a cut or an open wound. You certainly don't hear of HIV being routinely passed in this way. A lot depends on how long the Ebola virus can survive outside its' host.

SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C). One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature. In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20°C and 25°C and 30–40% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa). When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days. This information is based on experimental findings only and not based on observations in nature. This information is intended to be used to support local risk assessments in a laboratory setting.
A study on transmission of ebolavirus from fomites in an isolation ward concludes that the risk of transmission is low when recommended infection control guidelines for viral hemorrhagic fevers are followed. Infection control protocols included decontamination of floors with 0.5% bleach daily and decontamination of visibly contaminated surfaces with 0.05% bleach as necessary.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/r.../ebola-eng.php

So there is a danger: but it is not that high. The surface must first be contaminated, which would mean either blood, urine or faeces; sorry if too much detail. Since Dr Spencer was not bleeding everywhere, the restroom (if he used it) is indeed the likeliest danger area. It will either have had paper towels or a blow-drier, so that's not a likely contamination point. In room temperatures the virus doesn't survive long, so the surfaces of the sink and water closet aren't going to be dangerous for long; even if not cleaned regularly. While not a possibility one can merely dismiss as ridiculous, this is not the main risk.

As far as we know so far, all the patients have caught it from being closely associated with a previous patient. It is Dr Spencer's family and close associates, and the medical staff who have tended him, who need to be quarantined and closely monitored until the risk is over: the incubation period is 21 days.

Meanwhile as Deepsepia has already said:
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/r.../ebola-eng.php

BTW, though over two million of these posters were printed just before WW2 was declared by Britain, when the Blitz actually came, they were never used; the British public didn't need them because we were keeping calm and carrying on anyway. Forgive me for saying so, Brk549, but you ought to do the same in the USA. Sufficiently unto each day is the evil thereof. By all means take precautions as a sensible nation, but after you have done that, the rest is up to God/Thor/Pee Wee Herman. This is often attributed to Oliver Cromwell addressing the New Model Army before the Battle of Marsden Moor:

So; put your faith in God...but keep your powder dry.

[brk549]

Does it not worry you that they've gone from a private room to wearing a moon suit when their around them now,contagious from 21 days to over 40 some.What else are they wrong about or not telling us.Why is such a high percentage of health care workers in Africa getting it.I may be ignorant but I'd never go in a restroom if I knew one had been there throwing up and spewing from the other end.I guess you guys are just a lot braver than I am.If you say you wouldn't go in the same restroom then there is a risk and you don't believe them much more than I do.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by brk549

Does it not worry you that they've gone from a private room to wearing a moon suit when their around them now,contagious from 21 days to over 40 some.What else are they wrong about or not telling us.Why is such a high percentage of health care workers in Africa getting it.I may be ignorant but I'd never go in a restroom if I knew one had been there throwing up and spewing from the other end.I guess you guys are just a lot braver than I am.If you say you wouldn't go in the same restroom then there is a risk and you don't believe them much more than I do.

Q1: Nope.
Q2: Nope.

Unless you have new information, I understand that the quarantine period is set for 42 days, and they haul down the Yellow Jack after 2 x 21 days of incubation, meaning that the 42 days represents twice the incubation period of 21 days. So there's no change at all; unless you have new information.

Protective clothing is a common sense precaution and was in force in the UK right from when the NHS had notice that a British medical aid volunteer with Ebola were going to med-evacced from West Africa to the UK. It is direct contact with body fluids on draft from the patient which is particularly dangerous as I explained concerning the case in Nigeria of Patrick Sawyer. Assess the disastrous lack of resources and the fact that public health services barely exist at all in the affected West African countries; assess the number of cases in the community at large; assess the pressure health workers are under in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone; and I think your question about the rate of infection among doctors and nurses in West Africa answers itself and that the answer proves nothing.

It is perfectly obvious that Dr Spencer's movements should be followed and any disinfecting done where necessary. But it does not follow that anyone outside his immediate circle is in any great danger and we have already accumulated enough case history on this disease to prove this is so. As for him vomitting or having diarrhoea in the public restroom, he presented himself for treatment and isolation immediately when his first symptoms showed: very unlike Patrick Sawyer, he was/is a responsible person and a good citizen. I am sure we all earnestly wish him a full recovery. There's no evidence of him trawling around New York puking everywhere etc.etc. Your imagination is doing too much work Brk549.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Come on guys, certain people will worry about catching stuff like ebola or some other disease. Do not denigrate their fears because they do not understand how it is transmitted. Yes it is a bit ignorant but I think way to many American's are pretty ignorant. Look at what is popular on TV. Stupid crap the reality shows and crap like Honey, thank God it is cancelled, Boo Boo, game shows, etc. A lot of the American people, to my deep dismay, are at best functional idiots.

True. Shouldn't the media play a big role in fixing this?

[brk549]

Scoundrel would you go in that restroom?

[danton]

Originally Posted by Norkles

Ebola made the jump from monkeys to people because the locals ate them. Couple that with poor hygiene and local customs (which has nothing to do with Rolex wearing rulers) and you have the perfect recipe for disaster. AIDS followed the same path.

With respect, the squalid conditions I see on my television does have a connection to the Rolex wearing African politicians who live better than those they rob. Fifty years after the colonial era came to an end arguably little has been done to advance these countries, many reliant on foreign aid misspent as it is. Ebola has exposed the dire situation of these benighted populations clearly enough.

Regards.