Questions for our British friends

[pierrelm]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Is indeed for the proles, or worse than that -- that was the reputation. "Pool halls" in the States had a notorious reputation, when criminals were out on parole/probation, the terms of the parole often banned them from pool halls, where they might meet up with the rest of the "criminal element".
So keeping it Brit: was there an equivalent place in British life? Someplace where the lowlifes and crims found each other?

What goes around, comes around: Snooker Halls were one obvious venue. We didn't have too many 'Members' Clubs' outside of the big cities so snooker halls, which you could find in just about any small town (often above 'Burton's' a gents' tailoring shop) were renowned as the place where you could meet lower level aspirant shady characters - I used to hang out after school in our local one and we were allowed to knock around on the table with the dodgy baize. Never saw any real trouble either - it was like a quarantine area.
Otherwise the dog track also had a reputation for people who liked to gamble and might be interested in other less legal activity.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Is indeed for the proles, or worse than that -- that was the reputation. "Pool halls" in the States had a notorious reputation, when criminals were out on parole/probation, the terms of the parole often banned them from pool halls, where they might meet up with the rest of the "criminal element".

There have been some notorious criminal stories over the years that lived up to that reputation-- a famous Rhode Island rape case of a woman in a bar on pool table comes to mind-- but today its hard to find a pool hall that's anything other than yuppies.

So keeping it Brit: was there an equivalent place in British life? Someplace where the lowlifes and crims found each other?

There have always traditionally been "villains pubs". Not all pubs are villains' pubs but some licensed premises have been traditional haunts of not terribly respectable people. Sometimes it is a little bit romanticised, as with smugglers taverns such as the Lamorna Wink near Newlyn in Cornwall where the wink from the landlord in the 18th Century signified the fresh arrival and availability of uncustomed goods. Smugglers used to have a slightly rebellious allure but in reality they were dangerous then as they are dangerous now, and in those days they could be hanged and did not dare risk being caught or ratted on, as Kipling noted in his sinister poem A Smugglers Song:

Five and twenty ponies,
Trotting through the dark -
Brandy for the Parson, 'Baccy for the Clerk.
Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie -
Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by!

Actually, if the little girl watches the wall she will get her pay-off: a nice new doll from France. But her governess is terrified of what will happen if the little girl doesn't watch the wall: she must not be able to say who the gentlemen are. The gentlemen cannot allow this, and two human lives depend on the little girl watching the wall.

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

There have always traditionally been "villains pubs". Not all pubs are villains' pubs but some licensed premises have been traditional haunts of not terribly respectable people. Sometimes it is a little bit romanticised, as with smugglers taverns such as the Lamorna Wink near Newlyn in Cornwall where the wink from the landlord in the 18th Century signified the fresh arrival and availability of uncustomed goods. Smugglers used to have a slightly rebellious allure but in reality they were dangerous then as they are dangerous now, and in those days they could be hanged and did not dare risk being caught or ratted on, as Kipling noted in his sinister poem A Smugglers Song:

Scounds is discussing my childhood home! The Wink is famous and the folk-law known to us all as kids, my playground was Prussia Cove, home of the famous Carter Family, the leader of which, John resembled Frederick the Great and was nicknamed the King of Prussia, he was, despite his activities, a devout Methodist, on one famous occasion the Revenue, Customs Officers, had taken his stock, he broke into their warehouse in Penzance and stole it back, they left everyone elses were it was!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carters_of_Prussia_Cove
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia_Cove

As kids we would look for old Iron rings, hammered into the rocks and imagine ourselves as pirates, smugglers and wreckers, a particularly nasty bunch, who used to lure ships to the rocks with lanterns and fake lights! They would quite happily kill the ship wrecked sailors and civilians.

The most famous of who is Sir Cloudesley Shovel, Grand Admiral of England, read the tale, it has an interesting twist in the tail!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloudesley_Shovell

[scoundrel]

I like Penzance and the surrounding area. I haven't been there since 2004 but I would happily spend time there again. All the tourists seem to make a beeline for St Ives, a few miles north and on the opposite coast, but I think Penzance is the better place to stay. As well as the legendary background of shady taverns and lonely cliff-bound beaches with caves behind them for storing the barrels, this west end of Cornwall has a slightly pagan vibe with memories lingering from the old stone circles which still exist here.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

So keeping it Brit: was there an equivalent place in British life? Someplace where the lowlifes and crims found each other?

Well the House of Commons springs to mind.

Have to make a note that you don't need a Christmas present this year, 'cuz that was a gift-- way to hit a fat pitch out of the park, haroldeye!

Originally Posted by scoundrel

There have always traditionally been "villains pubs".

"Villains pubs" -- let me just say that that is the most fun thing I've learned about in a while . . . I don't think I've heard two words put together that tell such a great story.

[Brecht]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Is indeed for the proles, or worse than that -- that was the reputation. "Pool halls" in the States had a notorious reputation, when criminals were out on parole/probation, the terms of the parole often banned them from pool halls, where they might meet up with the rest of the "criminal element".

I used the term proles in a slightly different context. What I was referring to are bars/pubs frequented by working folks. Life in Austria is not as "exciting" as in America, so if there were any criminal elements, they were pretty invisible. Those weren't places with tattooed guys wearing eyepatches and playing pool with Bad to the Bone blasting in the background.

[Motorboater]

I'm watching Australian I'm a celebrity get me out of here. They a British chick I hadn't heard of before, Vicky Pattison.

I don't know how big her profile is over there. But I like her.

No question.

[Brecht]

Google says she's a "Reality TV star". In other words, she's nobody.

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by Brecht

Google says she's a "Reality TV star". In other words, she's nobody.

As it seems are most of today's so called celebrities! Nobody's, who have done nothing, achieved less and are famous for just being famous, pathetic isn't it?

[rupertramjet]

Little bit more about Cornish Smugglers Pubs!

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/hi...ook-six-888128