Atheist, are you one?? - Page 2

kennyjackson · 04-11-2012, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taffy2

I'm on the side of science, a devout atheist.

As my T-shirt said 10 years ago 'Thank God I'm an atheist'

“We are born wet, naked, and hungry. Then things get worse.” ~Author Unknown

**rotobott** · 04-11-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyjackson

I have long suspected - and am now thoroughly convinced - that one has to either not believe in God or one has to believe that He is thoroughly disengaged from humanity. I don’t see how, objectively looking at the world, one could conclude anything else. I believe the later. I do not believe that He is a personal God who is responsive to our prayers, hopes and aspirations. Further, I am beginning to be convinced that we do not have any sort of a pipeline to God. I think that he created us and simply said: “I gave you life now deal with it – alone.”

and on the eighth day he invented glasses

Me I'm a humanist, but theres some real bastards

**squigg58** · 04-11-2012, 09:08 PM

I vote agnostic. Don't know. Don't care!

**fleetwood77** · 04-11-2012, 09:09 PM

I don't know about atheists or humanists but you can be sure there are plenty of Onanists on VEF.

**tonil** · 04-11-2012, 09:31 PM

Good question,
I guess I would be qualificated more like agnostic guy then atheist.
There is not enough evidence or not evidence at all, to support everyhing with exact facts,so I'm not 100% sure what to take for truth , then I guess it would be ok to give a chance that maybe something exists but we are not able currently to see it or proove it.
But I approve atheists and respect them and all other good people no matter what religion or belifs keeps them going through this life.

**Nobody1** · 04-11-2012, 10:02 PM

ATHEISM - THE ANSWER THAT SAVES THE WORLD.

Well, sounds nice, but i think atheism is just another faith. The rebuttal is not possible here. On the other hand, atheists are not forced to take up the rebuttal. At least not according to Russell's teapot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

But believing means not knowing. Atheism and/or faith, i guess it doesn't matter. I for myself think there is a god. But he/she is, with some certainty not a Christian, Jew or Muslim.

There is just one answer that saves the world.

TOLERANCE

**Norbert84** · 04-11-2012, 10:13 PM

I became a convinced atheist after I began to explore science, history and (Marxist) philosophy. But my atheism is mostly a result of scientific naturalism. That was before I turned 18. Now I'm 27 and a bigger atheist than ever.

Religions claim to answer all the questions about life and our universe but never managed to answer even one. The goal of science is not to disprove god but scientific research has pretty much debunked all religious beliefs. Religion is randomness. It's false and can be interpreted as you wish. Slavery was justified by the bible, antisemitism was justified by the bible etc. Every culture in the world had its own myths and each of them thought to be the center of the universe or "the chosen ones". Many cultures converted to Christianity or Islam and rejected their previous beliefs. Why do they suddenly believe that those two monotheistic religions are right and their previous beliefs wrong? It doesn't make sense. Why should a Japanese become a Christian? It's a myth from another culture. Science is universal. It adresses humanity and is based on facts.
I'm not one of those "new atheists" though. I've been an atheist before Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens emerged as global atheist superstars. While they're brilliant minds, they're not the only ones. Karl Marx understood the problem: it's the society based on a specific economic system that produces religion. It has be proven that people are most likely to be religious in a poor country than in an socially advanced country like Sweden for example. In their poverty, religion is their only hope, their false hope. They might be aware of this problem but guys like those superstars of new atheism never mention it. They think you can turn people into atheists by speeches and Youtube videos. That might work in Britain, America or France but not in Afghanistan or Guatemala.
People like Hitchens and Harris were constant advocates of US military interventionism in the Middle East. Well, when you bomb down a village and kill, let's say, 50 civilians, you're most likely to produce more Muslim extremists than reducing their number.
I love Richard Dawkins' books but, although he's not a political person at all, I disagree with him politically. A few months ago, some private college was launched in England with high tuition fees. Richard Dawkins will be teaching there, too and his support for the Liberal-Democratic Party is widely known. That would mean he has no problem with privatizing the educational system. The question is: who are you going to teach Evolution when most people won't be able to afford higher education?
Religion has to be fought with scientific enlightenment but also social equality and free access to education.

**TCO95** · 04-11-2012, 10:16 PM

I think the problems begin when God is confused with religion. God could be a scientist who said what if I did this, then this, added a touch of this and then sat back and observed. We may well be a cosmic ant farm. I think it's perfectly valid to believe in God and not be religious. Of course you do run into that old "Who created the creator?" paradox but I'll leave that to minds greater than mine.

**Nobody1** · 04-11-2012, 10:57 PM

Norbert unfortunately i am not of your opinion. Science is good and useful. But what is science without a ethical basis? Monsanto, Bayer, Mengele.

Even the undeniable masterpiece of good old Kalle Marx is infiltrated with this ethical basis. Our whole (unfortunately, currently something capitalist perverted

) legal system is based on this shit. And if they wanted to admit it or not, this ethical basis even played in the Soviet Union a major role.

Now one may ask, what are these ominous bases ? Any suggestions?

A small hint : Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

**Norbert84** · 04-11-2012, 11:15 PM

Actually, ethics is the scientific term for morality and is pretty much formulated within science. This of course won't prevent some minds to break the rules. But science works and monsters like Mengele cannot put it in a bad light. A hammer is a product of science, too. It was invented to help people with their work, yet some use it to smash someone's face. Science needs ethics to serve humanity but it doesn't need hypocritical religious morality.

04-11-2012, 10:02 PM	#16
Nobody1 Vintage Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 789 Thanks: 9,467 Thanked 7,487 Times in 790 Posts	ATHEISM - THE ANSWER THAT SAVES THE WORLD. Well, sounds nice, but i think atheism is just another faith. The rebuttal is not possible here. On the other hand, atheists are not forced to take up the rebuttal. At least not according to Russell's teapot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot But believing means not knowing. Atheism and/or faith, i guess it doesn't matter. I for myself think there is a god. But he/she is, with some certainty not a Christian, Jew or Muslim. There is just one answer that saves the world. TOLERANCE __________________ Last edited by Nobody1; 04-11-2012 at 10:16 PM..

04-11-2012, 10:57 PM	#19
Nobody1 Vintage Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 789 Thanks: 9,467 Thanked 7,487 Times in 790 Posts	Norbert unfortunately i am not of your opinion. Science is good and useful. But what is science without a ethical basis? Monsanto, Bayer, Mengele. Even the undeniable masterpiece of good old Kalle Marx is infiltrated with this ethical basis. Our whole (unfortunately, currently something capitalist perverted ) legal system is based on this shit. And if they wanted to admit it or not, this ethical basis even played in the Soviet Union a major role. Now one may ask, what are these ominous bases ? Any suggestions? A small hint : Thou shalt have no other gods before me. __________________

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04-11-2012, 09:08 PM	#13
squigg58 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: My own little world Posts: 2,306 Thanks: 14,353 Thanked 19,668 Times in 2,510 Posts	I vote agnostic. Don't know. Don't care!

04-11-2012, 09:09 PM	#14
fleetwood77 Mr Groin Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Jockland Posts: 3,487 Thanks: 24,998 Thanked 49,781 Times in 4,501 Posts	I don't know about atheists or humanists but you can be sure there are plenty of Onanists on VEF.

04-11-2012, 09:31 PM	#15
tonil Vintage Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 610 Thanks: 1,855 Thanked 10,215 Times in 634 Posts	Good question, I guess I would be qualificated more like agnostic guy then atheist. There is not enough evidence or not evidence at all, to support everyhing with exact facts,so I'm not 100% sure what to take for truth , then I guess it would be ok to give a chance that maybe something exists but we are not able currently to see it or proove it. But I approve atheists and respect them and all other good people no matter what religion or belifs keeps them going through this life.

04-11-2012, 10:13 PM	#17
Norbert84 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Vienna Posts: 3,279 Thanks: 47,965 Thanked 39,899 Times in 3,317 Posts	I became a convinced atheist after I began to explore science, history and (Marxist) philosophy. But my atheism is mostly a result of scientific naturalism. That was before I turned 18. Now I'm 27 and a bigger atheist than ever. Religions claim to answer all the questions about life and our universe but never managed to answer even one. The goal of science is not to disprove god but scientific research has pretty much debunked all religious beliefs. Religion is randomness. It's false and can be interpreted as you wish. Slavery was justified by the bible, antisemitism was justified by the bible etc. Every culture in the world had its own myths and each of them thought to be the center of the universe or "the chosen ones". Many cultures converted to Christianity or Islam and rejected their previous beliefs. Why do they suddenly believe that those two monotheistic religions are right and their previous beliefs wrong? It doesn't make sense. Why should a Japanese become a Christian? It's a myth from another culture. Science is universal. It adresses humanity and is based on facts. I'm not one of those "new atheists" though. I've been an atheist before Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens emerged as global atheist superstars. While they're brilliant minds, they're not the only ones. Karl Marx understood the problem: it's the society based on a specific economic system that produces religion. It has be proven that people are most likely to be religious in a poor country than in an socially advanced country like Sweden for example. In their poverty, religion is their only hope, their false hope. They might be aware of this problem but guys like those superstars of new atheism never mention it. They think you can turn people into atheists by speeches and Youtube videos. That might work in Britain, America or France but not in Afghanistan or Guatemala. People like Hitchens and Harris were constant advocates of US military interventionism in the Middle East. Well, when you bomb down a village and kill, let's say, 50 civilians, you're most likely to produce more Muslim extremists than reducing their number. I love Richard Dawkins' books but, although he's not a political person at all, I disagree with him politically. A few months ago, some private college was launched in England with high tuition fees. Richard Dawkins will be teaching there, too and his support for the Liberal-Democratic Party is widely known. That would mean he has no problem with privatizing the educational system. The question is: who are you going to teach Evolution when most people won't be able to afford higher education? Religion has to be fought with scientific enlightenment but also social equality and free access to education.

04-11-2012, 10:16 PM	#18
TCO95 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Area 51? Posts: 4,639 Thanks: 40,028 Thanked 39,437 Times in 4,675 Posts	I think the problems begin when God is confused with religion. God could be a scientist who said what if I did this, then this, added a touch of this and then sat back and observed. We may well be a cosmic ant farm. I think it's perfectly valid to believe in God and not be religious. Of course you do run into that old "Who created the creator?" paradox but I'll leave that to minds greater than mine.

04-11-2012, 11:15 PM	#20
Norbert84 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Vienna Posts: 3,279 Thanks: 47,965 Thanked 39,899 Times in 3,317 Posts	Actually, ethics is the scientific term for morality and is pretty much formulated within science. This of course won't prevent some minds to break the rules. But science works and monsters like Mengele cannot put it in a bad light. A hammer is a product of science, too. It was invented to help people with their work, yet some use it to smash someone's face. Science needs ethics to serve humanity but it doesn't need hypocritical religious morality.