bring back hanging yes or no?

[fleetwood77]

Originally Posted by cuzzyman927

It may seem quite barbaric, but I have no doubt and would be willing to bet that those countries have a very low crime rate.

Crime, murders, etc. are running rampant and out of control here in the US, !

The UK has no death penalty yet has a much lower murder rate than the USA where the murder rate , as you state above, is out of control.

So it doesn't seem to me me that the death penalty is very effective as a deterrent.

[sweatyhat]

Some posts have declared they would support the judical killing of criminals where their guilt was beyond all doubt. What about all the others then? It's almost an admission of some failing in our legal system. Murderers could argue that if the state were that unsure of their conviction, they should be released.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by cuzzyman927

Crime, murders, etc. are running rampant and out of control here in the US, and our justice system lets many of the offenders off with basically a slap on the wrist.

Actually, our murder rate is the lowest its been in a generation. Interestingly, notwithstanding hard economic times, it continues to fall, everywhere

Originally Posted by Steady Decline in Major Crime Baffles Experts

The number of violent crimes in the United States dropped significantly last year, to what appeared to be the lowest rate in nearly 40 years, a development that was considered puzzling partly because it ran counter to the prevailing expectation that crime would increase during a recession.

In all regions, the country appears to be safer. The odds of being murdered or robbed are now less than half of what they were in the early 1990s, when violent crime peaked in the United States. Small towns, especially, are seeing far fewer murders: In cities with populations under 10,000, the number plunged by more than 25 percent last year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html

In 2007 New York City had the fewest murders since consistent records began being kept

Originally Posted by Low Murder Rate Brings New York Back to ’63

It was a year of trauma for the nation, and of foreboding for New York City. In 1963, the year that John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, New Yorkers were feeling strains in the urban fabric: Affluent families fled to the suburbs, job losses mounted among old-line manufacturers, and 548 people were killed.

As 2007 draws to a close, it seems very likely that there will be fewer than 500 killings in the city (as of Sunday evening, there had been 492) for the first time since reliable records started being kept.

That was 1963.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/ny...gewanted=print

[Markus R]

I can see both sides of the argument. I think what most of us all agree is that punishment should certainly fit the crime. Up in Liverpool a couple of years ago the parents of murdered Rhys Jones were subjected to sitting in a court watching the dirty bastards who killed Rhys smiling and laughing at the trial and as the verdict was given to them...

[billybunter]

A big problem in the USA is the amount of guns in peoples hands. Though I think it is too late to change that. And i'm sure most gun owners are not crazy.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by billybunter

A big problem in the USA is the amount of guns in peoples hands. Though I think it is too late to change that. And i'm sure most gun owners are not crazy.

Is both more and less of a problem than you might think.

Less of a problem: violent crime. Most shootings occur between people who know each other-- you are fairly unlikely to be held up and shot, by a stranger. It does happen, but the gun homicides are very heavily concentrated-- yeah, if you're the night clerk at a gas station, its a concern, but otherwise if you're not yourself doing crime, you're less impacted than is often thought.

More of a problem: accidents and suicides. You have a gun in the house, and if its used to kill someone, its less likely to be either a criminal murder, or lawful self defense-- it'll be an accident or a suicide.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Actually, our murder rate is the lowest its been in a generation. Interestingly, notwithstanding hard economic times, it continues to fall, everywhere

Is that really true, or are we observing the results of 'behind-the-scenes creative statistical redefinition'?

(as elsewhere)

[Warren G]

I haven't read this whole thread, but as far as the original question goes, I'd say no. (Of course it's still available here in the States). But I've been around the block, you know, and I've known some people, and all that, and I have to tell you...

Hanging is not a pretty way to go. Most guys I know would much rather be shot. So, if they were in a situation gone bad, where they knew they were going to hang if they got taken in, most guys would rather shoot it out and take their chances, however slim, than taken alive to hang.

And that's not, ya know...good.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by palo5

Is that really true, or are we observing the results of 'behind-the-scenes creative statistical redefinition'?

(as elsewhere)

Is really true.

US has less crime than there's been in my lifetime. Some stats can be tweaked, but murder is "ground truth" -- when a body shows up with a bullet in it, that's homicide, and it gets counted. On occasion, you'll get a police department that wants to make a jurisdiction look safer, and they'll discourage robbery reports . . . you can't "discourage" a homicide report.

Just from a personal perspective, the places I go are much safer than they were when I was a kid.

The big exception is young inner city black men, who continue to have extraordinary homicide rates, much higher than anyone else (odd factoid: a 40 year old black male is more likely to be murdered in Los Angeles than a 20 year old Latino). Young black men live in a terrifying and cruel world . . . trying to stay out of trouble doesn't seem to reduce the risk; good kids and bad guys alike get killed in extraordinary numbers.

The Los Angeles Times has an excellent murder blog, which shows you who's getting killed, and where

http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/blog/page/1/

I'd add that there's a fairly logical explanation for why the nation is safer: we lock up a LOT of people. Can't prove causality for sure-- but young men who have a history of violence get imprisoned for a long time in the US, much longer than in Europe, and much longer than we used to. I suspect that we're simply getting a lot of the bad guys off the street.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Is really true.

US has less crime than there's been in my lifetime. Some stats can be tweaked, but murder is "ground truth" -- when a body shows up with a bullet in it, that's homicide, and it gets counted

Okay

young men who have a history of violence get imprisoned for a long time in the US, much longer than in Europe, and much longer than we used to. I suspect that we're simply getting a lot of the bad guys off the street.

I believe in shorter but harder sentences. Why do you not have more federal prisons in Alaska?