Windows 10? - Page 109

**Ernesto75** · July 6th, 2016, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isegrim

You know, HAL stands really for IBM (one step forward for every letter in the name) and Microsoft started up with an operating system for IBM machines so it were somehow 'back to the roots' ...

Yes Stanley Kubrick liked to be kept up to date.

Microsoft wrote the first OS used on the first IBM PC.
IBM must have regrets about it (or at least they should).

**Isegrim** · July 6th, 2016, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernesto75

... I still have to use it, but when I checked the iso file, I was prompted for the Microsoft key.

When I tried to activate my Windows 7 Ultimate around Easter my product key wasn't accepted by Microsoft. I had to make a reclamation and was given 4 (!) new keys. Only the fifth worked... But that was activation. For Installation your product key should work. Then you get 30 days for activation if I remember right. You should maybe speak with your seller (Amazon?) about it soon so you do not miss any time limit for reclamation ...

**Isegrim** · July 6th, 2016, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernesto75

... Microsoft wrote the first OS used on the first IBM PC ...

No, they bought it. To stupid for programming...

By the way: the original name of the OS Microsoft bought was QDOS for 'Quick and Dirty' OS. Was probably an omen for the further history of the company, or wasn't it ...

**Ernesto75** · July 6th, 2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isegrim

No, they bought it. To stupid for programming...

By the way: the original name of the OS Microsoft bought was QDOS for 'Quick and Dirty' OS. Was probably an omen for the further history of the company, or wasn't it ...

Perhaps you are speaking of Bill Gates who wrote his only one program and badly.
I heard the tale from an ex Microsoft employee who made the mistake of telling Bill Gates (without knowing he was the author of the program) he had found a bug in his program ...!
He went on to work at Borland's. Now he his at Embarcadero's near retiring.

But I admit Bill Gates has other qualities.

**Rick Danger** · July 12th, 2016, 05:06 PM

An interesting conversation between IT professionals on the Patch Management.org mailist.

Of course, the gang in Redmond would like you to believe that large institutional and enterprise customers are flocking to Windows 10. I have ample reason for reservation, as the following dialogues demonstrate.

Interesting takeaways:

(1) There are security features in Windows 10 of apparent interest to IT professionals. In today's increasingly hazardous, Internet of Things environment this is a key concern.

(2) Many IT pros are not happy with apparently compatibility issues - not just with current line-of-business applications but with Microsoft tools like Active Directory (AD), Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) (vital for administrators to manage the distribution of updates and hotfixes released for Microsoft products to computers in a corporate environment), and Group Policy Objects.

(3) The "chopped" version of Windows 10 known as the Long Term Servicing Branch (LTSB) is version that large enterprise customers are looking at most closely. It does not include the shiny bells-and-whistles like Edge and Cortana. But it also does not come with the problem of forced updates. Corporate users are not happy with the prospect of having to test and deploy each new release of Windows 10 every 6-8 months as dictated by Microsoft.

Microsoft released Windows 10 LTSB under it's large scale enterprise licensing as a platform for use on devices like ATMs, kiosks, industrial controllers, and other applications. They would really like to prevent it's widespread use as a general workstation OS since it does not hook into it's lucrative service offerings like Azure, OneDrive, Office 365, et. al. They certainly have no intent of offering LTSB to the consumer marketplace.

You might want to start reading from the bottom to the top. As part of my membership I redacted the names and email addresses.

Oh, one of the correspondents if fond of using "YMMV" - "your mileage may vary". I had to look that up!

[patchmanagement] Improving Data Protection in Windows 10

From: Matt
To Patch Management Mailing List
Today at 5:05 AM
You bring up some good points and they are along the same lines as my own concerns.

Are they a deal breaker for us? Maybe, maybe not. Are they still concerns, definitely!

We are still at least 6 months away from beginning our wider trial so there is still time for some of those to be addressed before we do. I'll be beginning our internal IT trial with the anniversary update in the next month or so, so see how that goes.

Your point regarding the GPO management is the one that hit's home the most for me. MS completely redesigned the whole OS with 8/8.1/10 and there are STILL such obvious configuration items missing from GP. If anyone on the testing team would have deployed a Windows instance in an enterprise environment they would have come across the same management challenges and the same deficiencies in GP.

Not trying to start the discussion all over (that went for days last time!) but I still haven’t seen a compelling reason to NOT use LTSB as the primary platform for our workstations. I'll be evaluating both versions in our
environment but I'm already leaning towards the LTSB for the same reasons as you posted, more benefit with less management overhead,.

-----Original Message-----
From: Job
Sent: Saturday, 9 July 2016 7:23 AM
To: Patch Management Mailing List
Subject: RE: [patchmanagement] Improving Data Protection in Windows 10

" why is that line scaring you "

While past performance is no indication of future results, I have not been pleased with the Quality of recent product updates and releases. I feel the initial product quality is lacking over the last 12 to 18 months.

"What options are you lacking?"

I think the main problem I have had with the testing and research I have done is one of manageability. MS is aggressively pushing a product that does not seem to interface well with older versions of AD, WSUS, or GPO. At least there are more caveats than I feel are necessary, and more "rules" have been changed. Now it is possible I may feel differently when I get around to Server 2016, but that is not RTM yet. Some of the following are questions and may reflect the lack of communication from MS to me, their customer.

The privacy (and telemetry) changes that were made default can only be turned off in LTSB. Then the last I heard there was no single management interface for to disable them (GPO). For our Intellectual Property we consider this a privacy/security risk, MS does not.

We have some ERP software that may or may not work with Win 10. We stopped active testing when we realized the telemetry/privacy issue would preclude us from using it in the short term.

Applications installed by default must be uninstalled using powershell scripts. Do I have all of the commands? Where do I find the "official" list?

The App store. How does this affect security in the future? How is it managed centrally?

Ads. Really?

WU and I don't know about the WSUS insulated version, requires different update schedules which are incompatible with our 20 hour work day.

Updates are massive. I don't know if this is a problem, but I am concerned for our remote locations with limited bandwidth. It may require manually putting the files on a USB flash drive and shipping them to some locations, unless we can limit the transfer during non-work and non-backup hours.

These problems point to my conclusion that the Win 10 ecosystem is not developed for a sysadmin that needs centrally managed PCs to be efficient. OR, I am missing a major component of the design.

As a bonus:

When we checked last fall there were many printers, and input devices in use here that did not have drivers available. This may have changed and YMMV.

In addition, we have about a third of our fleet that will need new hardware when we move to Win 10, but Win 7 works great on it.This just adds to the Total Cost of Upgrade, and requires more value from the new upgrade to warrant the move. Otherwise it makes more sense to use the value we have already purchased first.

Actually, the way MS has been pushing changes and then "back-pedaling" on changes throughout all of the Win 10 upgrade process this last year,it is possible several of these points have been fixed.

A lot of these could be chalked up to "He doesn't want to change". And I agree, I don't. I haven't seen a compelling reason to migrate to Win 10. It makes our life more difficult to provide the same level of service, or I have to change the level of service as well.

A more secure system is a great motivator, but with our existing layers of protection that we have already invested in, it is not enough to warrant the move at this time. Counterpoints to the security argument are the "malware-like" tactics MS has been using to push the upgrade (i.e. what will they do in the future), and the inability to turn off telemetry. It doesn't give me the warm, snuggly feeling of a security blanket I want after I upgrade.

I wanted to like Win 10, and I was testing it heavily in August, but I got burned from the onset with the massive privacy changes that we had to accept. You might say I still haven't gotten over that, and to my knowledge they haven't changed it. In the fall they said it was OK, because they said it was private.

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sue
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 11:18 AM
To: Patch Management Mailing List
Subject: Re: [patchmanagement] Improving Data Protection in Windows 10

So educate me...why is that line scaring you?

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...on-protection/

As to 10 being only different, not better, so granted I'm in the final process of putting together the deck for my July 20th webcast so all of this is fresh in my mind, but moving the credentials out of LSA secrets into the virtualization stack as just one example of security goodness in 10, there's a ton of stuff they've done in security that in the angst of how they've pushed out this release, IMHO we've forgotten the good stuff under the hood.

What options are you lacking?

===================

On 7/8/2016 10:25 AM, Job wrote:
>
> " I get it that all of your points are extremely valid, but I'm still questioning the use of LTSB on "worker bee" deployments."
>
> Sue, I am too. I have not moved forward with Win 10 deployment because...
>
> 1. I don't like my Win 10 options compared to Win 7.
>
> 2. I am not convinced it is better, only different.
>
> 3. There is no incentive to change at this time, only a lot of compatibility work.
>
> Don't worry though I am going to keep watching its development and when the > product is mature enough for us we will get it if it is still needed.
>
> Also, the line of that article that scares me the most is,
>
> "We wanted it to work great for both SMB’s and enterprises, and *based on
> the feedback that we have received so far*, we believe that
> we’ve achieved that goal." (Emphasis added)
>
> Job
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sue
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 9:44 AM
> To: Patch Management Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [patchmanagement] Improving Data Protection in Windows 10
>
> How old are you talking about here because there's a point in time where you
> have to decide if you shooting yourself in the foot having too many things
> dragging down your network. Otherwise, isolation/limitation of access, etc > etc.
>
> Windows 7 is getting to (is?) at the point that you need to strongly be
> planning it's slow demise and fade out on your network. In any sized org,
> change must be planned for.
>
> I get it that all of your points are extremely valid, but I'm still questioning
> the use of LTSB on "worker bee" deployments.
>
> ===================
>
> On 7/8/2016 9:18 AM, Job wrote:
>
> > Those are some cool security features, however they are unproven in the OS.
>
> > How does it interact with Samba, or older windows shares?
>
> > How does it interact with older Office products?
>
> > Does it play nice with AV and other security products?
>
> > How about my ERP software when it pushes data into Excel, or PDF?
>
> > There is a reason new technology is called Bleeding Edge. In a large
> > organization often it is ponderous to change, but if change is not
> > managed then the help desk will be flooded and there will be a revolt or
> > worse hari-kiri. In thinking about our current user base a 18 month
> > upgrade cycle is probably too frequent. Granted our organization is heavy
> > on experienced users, and light on millennials. YMMV
>

rebel scum · July 13th, 2016, 04:51 AM

I really don't mean to interrupt...and maybe this has been posted.... I had 10 forced on me and now I have cortana, who's window box pops up on my screen when I try to scroll with my touchpad on the laptop...constantly! !... I don't need anything from cortana....I don't want it to be around quite honestly...
How in the fuck do I stop it? It's driving me insane....

**Isegrim** · July 13th, 2016, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel scum

... I had 10 forced on me and now I have cortana ...

Sounds pretty much like a veneral disease ...

Maybe helpful: http://www.windowscentral.com/how-tu...ing-windows-10
I don't use Windows 10, so I don't know if it's working ...

**sandhunter** · July 13th, 2016, 04:23 PM

Try this

Quote:

Disabling Cortana is not at all difficult and Microsoft most likely saw this coming, so it offered such options right in the configuration screen of the personal assistant in order to make sure that everyone finds it easily.
So, if you want to disable Cortana completely, just launch the personal assistant, click on the small hamburger button in the top left corner and look for the option that reads “Do you want Cortana to work for you?” Simply choose “Off” and you're good to go.
Alternatively, you can also disable “Hey Cortana” from the very same menu and see if it makes any difference in terms of performance. We've received reports from users saying that doing this significantly improves system performance and this does make sense.
“Hey Cortana” keeps a process always running on your system to launch the personal assistant whenever you call her, so it's only natural to expect it to eat up some of your hardware resources.

rebel scum · July 14th, 2016, 02:48 PM

I tried shutting off everything on Cortana and even tried shutting off three finger tap as someone else suggested...I can't figure it out. Nothing seems to stop it.

**sandhunter** · July 14th, 2016, 08:55 PM

OK
1. Click/tap in the search box or Cortana icon (Windows+S) on the taskbar, click/tap on the Notebook

icon, and click/tap on Settings.
2. Turn off Cortana.

July 12th, 2016, 05:06 PM	#1085
Rick Danger Vintage Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: In the Chill lounge..... Posts: 1,725 Thanks: 6,794 Thanked 31,273 Times in 1,714 Posts	IT Professional on the status of Windows 10 An interesting conversation between IT professionals on the Patch Management.org mailist. Of course, the gang in Redmond would like you to believe that large institutional and enterprise customers are flocking to Windows 10. I have ample reason for reservation, as the following dialogues demonstrate. Interesting takeaways: (1) There are security features in Windows 10 of apparent interest to IT professionals. In today's increasingly hazardous, Internet of Things environment this is a key concern. (2) Many IT pros are not happy with apparently compatibility issues - not just with current line-of-business applications but with Microsoft tools like Active Directory (AD), Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) (vital for administrators to manage the distribution of updates and hotfixes released for Microsoft products to computers in a corporate environment), and Group Policy Objects. (3) The "chopped" version of Windows 10 known as the Long Term Servicing Branch (LTSB) is version that large enterprise customers are looking at most closely. It does not include the shiny bells-and-whistles like Edge and Cortana. But it also does not come with the problem of forced updates. Corporate users are not happy with the prospect of having to test and deploy each new release of Windows 10 every 6-8 months as dictated by Microsoft. Microsoft released Windows 10 LTSB under it's large scale enterprise licensing as a platform for use on devices like ATMs, kiosks, industrial controllers, and other applications. They would really like to prevent it's widespread use as a general workstation OS since it does not hook into it's lucrative service offerings like Azure, OneDrive, Office 365, et. al. They certainly have no intent of offering LTSB to the consumer marketplace. You might want to start reading from the bottom to the top. As part of my membership I redacted the names and email addresses. Oh, one of the correspondents if fond of using "YMMV" - "your mileage may vary". I had to look that up! [patchmanagement] Improving Data Protection in Windows 10 From: Matt To Patch Management Mailing List Today at 5:05 AM You bring up some good points and they are along the same lines as my own concerns. Are they a deal breaker for us? Maybe, maybe not. Are they still concerns, definitely! We are still at least 6 months away from beginning our wider trial so there is still time for some of those to be addressed before we do. I'll be beginning our internal IT trial with the anniversary update in the next month or so, so see how that goes. Your point regarding the GPO management is the one that hit's home the most for me. MS completely redesigned the whole OS with 8/8.1/10 and there are STILL such obvious configuration items missing from GP. If anyone on the testing team would have deployed a Windows instance in an enterprise environment they would have come across the same management challenges and the same deficiencies in GP. Not trying to start the discussion all over (that went for days last time!) but I still haven’t seen a compelling reason to NOT use LTSB as the primary platform for our workstations. I'll be evaluating both versions in our environment but I'm already leaning towards the LTSB for the same reasons as you posted, more benefit with less management overhead,. -----Original Message----- From: Job Sent: Saturday, 9 July 2016 7:23 AM To: Patch Management Mailing List Subject: RE: [patchmanagement] Improving Data Protection in Windows 10 " why is that line scaring you " While past performance is no indication of future results, I have not been pleased with the Quality of recent product updates and releases. I feel the initial product quality is lacking over the last 12 to 18 months. "What options are you lacking?" I think the main problem I have had with the testing and research I have done is one of manageability. MS is aggressively pushing a product that does not seem to interface well with older versions of AD, WSUS, or GPO. At least there are more caveats than I feel are necessary, and more "rules" have been changed. Now it is possible I may feel differently when I get around to Server 2016, but that is not RTM yet. Some of the following are questions and may reflect the lack of communication from MS to me, their customer. The privacy (and telemetry) changes that were made default can only be turned off in LTSB. Then the last I heard there was no single management interface for to disable them (GPO). For our Intellectual Property we consider this a privacy/security risk, MS does not. We have some ERP software that may or may not work with Win 10. We stopped active testing when we realized the telemetry/privacy issue would preclude us from using it in the short term. Applications installed by default must be uninstalled using powershell scripts. Do I have all of the commands? Where do I find the "official" list? The App store. How does this affect security in the future? How is it managed centrally? Ads. Really? WU and I don't know about the WSUS insulated version, requires different update schedules which are incompatible with our 20 hour work day. Updates are massive. I don't know if this is a problem, but I am concerned for our remote locations with limited bandwidth. It may require manually putting the files on a USB flash drive and shipping them to some locations, unless we can limit the transfer during non-work and non-backup hours. These problems point to my conclusion that the Win 10 ecosystem is not developed for a sysadmin that needs centrally managed PCs to be efficient. OR, I am missing a major component of the design. As a bonus: When we checked last fall there were many printers, and input devices in use here that did not have drivers available. This may have changed and YMMV. In addition, we have about a third of our fleet that will need new hardware when we move to Win 10, but Win 7 works great on it.This just adds to the Total Cost of Upgrade, and requires more value from the new upgrade to warrant the move. Otherwise it makes more sense to use the value we have already purchased first. Actually, the way MS has been pushing changes and then "back-pedaling" on changes throughout all of the Win 10 upgrade process this last year,it is possible several of these points have been fixed. A lot of these could be chalked up to "He doesn't want to change". And I agree, I don't. I haven't seen a compelling reason to migrate to Win 10. It makes our life more difficult to provide the same level of service, or I have to change the level of service as well. A more secure system is a great motivator, but with our existing layers of protection that we have already invested in, it is not enough to warrant the move at this time. Counterpoints to the security argument are the "malware-like" tactics MS has been using to push the upgrade (i.e. what will they do in the future), and the inability to turn off telemetry. It doesn't give me the warm, snuggly feeling of a security blanket I want after I upgrade. I wanted to like Win 10, and I was testing it heavily in August, but I got burned from the onset with the massive privacy changes that we had to accept. You might say I still haven't gotten over that, and to my knowledge they haven't changed it. In the fall they said it was OK, because they said it was private. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Sue Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 11:18 AM To: Patch Management Mailing List Subject: Re: [patchmanagement] Improving Data Protection in Windows 10 So educate me...why is that line scaring you? https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...on-protection/ As to 10 being only different, not better, so granted I'm in the final process of putting together the deck for my July 20th webcast so all of this is fresh in my mind, but moving the credentials out of LSA secrets into the virtualization stack as just one example of security goodness in 10, there's a ton of stuff they've done in security that in the angst of how they've pushed out this release, IMHO we've forgotten the good stuff under the hood. What options are you lacking? =================== On 7/8/2016 10:25 AM, Job wrote: > > " I get it that all of your points are extremely valid, but I'm still questioning the use of LTSB on "worker bee" deployments." > > Sue, I am too. I have not moved forward with Win 10 deployment because... > > 1. I don't like my Win 10 options compared to Win 7. > > 2. I am not convinced it is better, only different. > > 3. There is no incentive to change at this time, only a lot of compatibility work. > > Don't worry though I am going to keep watching its development and when the > product is mature enough for us we will get it if it is still needed. > > Also, the line of that article that scares me the most is, > > "We wanted it to work great for both SMB’s and enterprises, and based on > the feedback that we have received so far, we believe that > we’ve achieved that goal." (Emphasis added) > > Job > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 9:44 AM > To: Patch Management Mailing List > Subject: Re: [patchmanagement] Improving Data Protection in Windows 10 > > How old are you talking about here because there's a point in time where you > have to decide if you shooting yourself in the foot having too many things > dragging down your network. Otherwise, isolation/limitation of access, etc > etc. > > Windows 7 is getting to (is?) at the point that you need to strongly be > planning it's slow demise and fade out on your network. In any sized org, > change must be planned for. > > I get it that all of your points are extremely valid, but I'm still questioning > the use of LTSB on "worker bee" deployments. > > =================== > > On 7/8/2016 9:18 AM, Job wrote: > > > Those are some cool security features, however they are unproven in the OS. > > > How does it interact with Samba, or older windows shares? > > > How does it interact with older Office products? > > > Does it play nice with AV and other security products? > > > How about my ERP software when it pushes data into Excel, or PDF? > > > There is a reason new technology is called Bleeding Edge. In a large > > organization often it is ponderous to change, but if change is not > > managed then the help desk will be flooded and there will be a revolt or > > worse hari-kiri. In thinking about our current user base a 18 month > > upgrade cycle is probably too frequent. Granted our organization is heavy > > on experienced users, and light on millennials. YMMV >

July 13th, 2016, 04:51 AM	#1086
rebel scum Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 3 Thanks: 2,024 Thanked 36 Times in 3 Posts	I really don't mean to interrupt...and maybe this has been posted.... I had 10 forced on me and now I have cortana, who's window box pops up on my screen when I try to scroll with my touchpad on the laptop...constantly! !... I don't need anything from cortana....I don't want it to be around quite honestly... How in the fuck do I stop it? It's driving me insane....

July 14th, 2016, 02:48 PM	#1089
rebel scum Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 3 Thanks: 2,024 Thanked 36 Times in 3 Posts	I tried shutting off everything on Cortana and even tried shutting off three finger tap as someone else suggested...I can't figure it out. Nothing seems to stop it.

July 14th, 2016, 08:55 PM	#1090
sandhunter Super Draconian Sandhunter Join Date: May 2013 Location: Sonoran Desert Posts: 13,979 Thanks: 208,917 Thanked 261,323 Times in 13,886 Posts	OK 1. Click/tap in the search box or Cortana icon (Windows+S) on the taskbar, click/tap on the Notebook icon, and click/tap on Settings. 2. Turn off Cortana.