Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

the hypocrisy makes me sick.

Write the customer glad to buy cheap commodities made on children exploitation, children working instead to be at school getting a good education.

If one day, workers, together, request the same fair salary, you will never buy anymore your Iphone 900$, but 90000$.

There are international tribunals about war crimes, insider trading and no tribunals or lawmakers have statuated on these enterprises making billions on the back of Third World workers?

Buyers defending the cheap prices of commodities are absolute hypocrite.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Write the customer glad to buy cheap commodities made on children exploitation, children working instead to be at school getting a good education.

If one day, workers, together, request the same fair salary, you will never buy anymore your Iphone 900$, but 90000$.

There are international tribunals about war crimes, insider trading and no tribunals or lawmakers have statuated on these enterprises making billions on the back of Third World workers?

Buyers defending the cheap prices of commodities are absolute hypocrite.

My dear friend, for many centuries children worked on farms from the time they could walk. Most died before reaching adulthood. Capitalism has made it possible for many millions of children to live longer, be educated, and live in a material splendor that aristocrats four centuries back would be totally unable to envision. Yes, it has is brutalities, inequities, and injustices. But Marx believed that capitalism was a necessary stage in human economic and social development. The story has not ended and the jury is still out, but we have long since stopped burning slave children alive in hopes that the gods would grant us a good harvest.

For many Third World workers these factory jobs are an improvement over their previous lives. Change is needed and resource consumption must be rationalized. But, please, lighten up!

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Write the customer glad to buy cheap commodities made on children exploitation, children working instead to be at school getting a good education.

If one day, workers, together, request the same fair salary, you will never buy anymore your Iphone 900$, but 90000$.

A smartphone uses trivial amounts of commodities. Its a bit of metal and a bit of glass, total value of the commodity inputs to a phone are less than $5.

The value is entirely in the processing the materials and the intellectual property.

Your argument is based an a misunderstanding of the economics of technology.

Every smartphone manufacturer is automating as much of their assembly process as possible, going forward there will be ever fewer people doing physical assembly.

A good example would be Intel's chip foundries-- a modern foundry can produce several billion dollars worth of product with a few hundred workers.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

A smartphone uses trivial amounts of commodities. Its a bit of metal and a bit of glass, total value of the commodity inputs to a phone are less than $5.

The value is entirely in the processing the materials and the intellectual property.

Your argument is based an a misunderstanding of the economics of technology.

Every smartphone manufacturer is automating as much of their assembly process as possible, going forward there will be ever fewer people doing physical assembly.

A good example would be Intel's chip foundries-- a modern foundry can produce several billion dollars worth of product with a few hundred workers.

Originally Posted by Brian249x

For many Third World workers these factory jobs are an improvement over their previous lives. Change is needed and resource consumption must be rationalized. But, please, lighten up!

I can't drop this
People like xyzde forget to ask why there is exploitation

So, here's what I know and experienced 1st hand.



The Ford Ranger .. Great vehicle, I want one, I could buy one cash today I won't buy one though for what it represents to me, pain and sorrow.

I worked for that company for 22 years in my hometown.
Ford closed it's manufacturing in my country in 2016 after 91 years of being in my hometown.

That Ranger was 100% designed in my hometown, almost all testing done here with the exception of snow conditions, that was the only design and testing done anywhere outside of Australia, not a single part was made here even while design was going on. There were actual plans to build some here.

Ford closed it's doors here for 3 reasons,
1, they, Ford themselves cited themselves as misjudging the market and made the wrong product for too long here.

2, Government policy

3, Cost, the 2 biggest costs being labor and electricity... Thank You Carbon Tax, a Labor Party deal with the Greens now abolished but too late.

The worst of those being labor cost, while we dickhead union members listened to the union officials and kept demanding 18% pay increases every 3 years among other little goodies while the company struggled to make any profit here. Meanwhile, overseas in place like Thailand there were people willing to work for a quarter of the wages earned here. I don't blame Ford for not making that Ranger here at all, why would they when it would only result in a loss.

When I visit my hometown now and bump into someone I worked with there it's funny how many have changed their opinions of unions and their so called "Struggle For Workers Rights"

Ford as I said took some blame for their closure, didn't blame anyone else, meanwhile both sides of Government blamed each other and the unions blamed everyone but themselves The Government reduced tariffs too far and the unions did nothing to make it more appealing for the company to stay here. With Ford leaving that set GM and Toyota on the path to closure also, we now have no car industry with the exception of Ford which still does do global design, engineering and testing here.

That's what happens when one with blind faith listens to left wing radical union officials who called management there as scum, parasites, spineless among many other words.

For what it's worth, the workers in Africa and Asia who now work for multi nationals for low wages, well it's now their fight. It kills me to say this but it's up tp them alone to form unions of old, unlike the current rubbish that claims they are unions, and have a proper fight with the companies. I will continue to buy Ford, just not a Ranger and Apple and so on and on .... if we didn't nobody would have anything to enjoy their lives.

Another thing, Trump I don't particularly like him, but when he promised to bring back jobs to the States and has done ..... guess who loses the most ??? Asia and Africa.

That old saying, If your not a socialist when you're in your 20's you have no heart and if you're not a conservative in you're 40's you're a fool .... rings true with me, happened to me

So, in all, that's how I got to be from an idiot youngster listening to radicals to having a brain in my head once having lived it.

Communism is as I said pure evil in disguise as creating a utopia for all ... Karl Marx and his theories are proven failures ..... The world would have been better off if his mother swallowed the load of semen that became Karl

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

My dear friend, for many centuries children worked on farms from the time they could walk. Most died before reaching adulthood. Capitalism has made it possible for many millions of children to live longer, be educated, and live in a material splendor that aristocrats four centuries back would be totally unable to envision. Yes, it has is brutalities, inequities, and injustices. But Marx believed that capitalism was a necessary stage in human economic and social development. The story has not ended and the jury is still out, but we have long since stopped burning slave children alive in hopes that the gods would grant us a good harvest.

For many Third World workers these factory jobs are an improvement over their previous lives. Change is needed and resource consumption must be rationalized. But, please, lighten up!

My dear Brian, here is my answer. http://vintage-erotica-forum.com/sho...postcount=4453

We are in 2018, not in 1848.
You change the word latino by Third World children, orchards by coltan mines.

I hope that you will agree with me, that's not normal that there are 12 years old African children working in unsafe coltan mine and at the other side of the channel, Occidental parents buy a new cheap smartphone every two years to all their children.

That's nothing else than that Marxism.
You understood quite well the analysis of Marx. You will surely agree that his analysis contributed to improve our way of social and working life in comparison of our ancesters who were exploited in miserable (and Third World today) conditions.

So why does it still happen today?
Because there are no international laws and policies protecting workers.
Because the lobbies (through the pressure of their shareholders) are only looking at better returns.

We have everything in our hand to get a better world, but in 2018 that's still no the case.

Is a modern communism or a highly and strongly regulated capitalism or a form of anarchism or mutualism, the solutions? Hard to say.
But today a dirty exploitation is still active and guys like Tim Cook or Bill Gates (as examples) made their money on Third World workers exploitation.
In collaborating with enterprises that employed children all around the world, they contributed to death and misery.
Capitalism always was a vicious way to make business.
If a capitain of industry is caring with his workers, the prices of his commodities are expensive, customers buy the same articles at a competitor and the caring industry collapse, because it was ethical.

Politicians and lawmakers do nothing to regulate that efficiently.

A fact is sure, today it's almost impossible to be a shareholder and not hardly contributing in Third World (or even First World) workers exploitation. Almost impossible. That's the strict reality.

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Your argument is based an a misunderstanding of the economics of technology.

Every smartphone manufacturer is automating as much of their assembly process as possible, going forward there will be ever fewer people doing physical assembly.

A good example would be Intel's chip foundries-- a modern foundry can produce several billion dollars worth of product with a few hundred workers.

Deep...
I misundestand nothing. We do not pay the correct prices of raw materials, because exploited workers are paid from 0.4 cents to 5$ per hour.
Pay them the same hourly wage as Tim Cook is paid and we will see the price of we raw materials "explosing".

Did you watch the film "Amistad"?
There are two American lawyers, one recognising that the African deported people could be exploited and another defending the Human rights.
The fair lawyer won. According to the scenario, the jugement contributed to activate the American civil war. (That's the Spielberg's point of view)

Please be the fair lawyer, even if shareholders (the actual slavedrivers) will then create a war.

So, why don't we put robots to make these jobs?
Why don't we send these children at school and their parents improving their knowledges?
That's possible. You know like me that's possible.

Originally Posted by Estreeter

For what it's worth, the workers in Africa and Asia who now work for multi nationals for low wages, well it's now their fight.

That's one of the several points where you are wrong about Marxism.

Last sentence of the communist manifesto:

"Travailleurs de tous les pays, unissez-vous!"

"Workers from all countries, unite!"

That's what you didn't understand. Nations, religions divide workers.
That seems terribly naive, but if we (all the workers in the world) make a sitting, occupy the offices, the work places, during two weeks or one month and negociate fair laws and conditions, the life will be better.

What happens today?
Greedy people (politicians, shareholders, managers) tell to everybody to work more for less money.

I speak with my uncles who are 80 to 90 years old. They all say that the jobs were better in the 70's.
Since 1980's the slavedrivers came back through the windows to take the control and fuck the workers... all around the world.

All your complaints are described in Karl Marx theories.

You read the Bible (written about 1800 years ago), you learned to manipulate numbers (theories written thousands years ago), you use Ohm's law (written centuries ago), you follow legal rules that were written 150 years ago...

It's not because Marx analysed the unfairness of Capitalism 150 years ago, that that means they are obsolete.

Estreeter. Read the Communist Manifesto and become a Marxist!!!

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

A fact is sure, today it's almost impossible to be a shareholder

100% bullshit, I own shares in 6 Aussie companies, bought some more in Westpac, one of our 4 big banks not less than a month ago. Never had any issue buying shares

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Pay them the same hourly wage as Tim Cook is paid and we will see the price of we raw materials "explosing".

Umm, I am guessing the worker on the floor does not have anywhere near the level of responsibilty Tim Cook has, the amount of hours Tim Cook works would be just a tad bit more I think also.

As for the price of commodities ...... who's to say what the correct price is You The price is set by the market and what the biyers are willing to pay.

Once again, You have failed to address the left wing garbage I experienced 1st hand and instead of defending your beloved commie rubbish you go on an attack of capitalism typical

Honestly, I don't give a fuck what third world workers are paid, really I don't and not a thing you say here will change that .... That problem as in my post above should be taken on by them and forming their own old style unions, that's my left wing view and good on them if they and succeed in doing so but, I'll be damned if I ever listen to anyone on the left telling me how I should lead my life and what to do and what to eat and how I spend my time, I've been a minor victim of it.

Originally Posted by xyzde69

That's one of the several points where you are wrong about Marxism.


Estreeter. Read the Communist Manifesto and become a Marxist!!!

I'd use it as dunny paper before I read it.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

100% bullshit, I own shares in 6 Aussie companies, bought some more in Westpac, one of our 4 big banks not less than a month ago. Never had any issue buying shares

I wrote:

A fact is sure, today it's almost impossible to be a shareholder and not hardly contributing in Third World (or even First World) workers exploitation. Almost impossible. That's the strict reality.

... and ...

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Umm, I am guessing the worker on the floor does not have anywhere near the level of responsibilty Tim Cook has, the amount of hours Tim Cook works would be just a tad bit more I think also.

As for the price of commodities ...... who's to say what the correct price is You The price is set by the market and what the biyers are willing to pay.

Once again, You have failed to address the left wing garbage I experienced 1st hand and instead of defending your beloved commie rubbish you go on an attack of capitalism typical

Honestly, I don't give a fuck what third world workers are paid, really I don't and not a thing you say here will change that .... That problem as in my post above should be taken on by them and forming their own old style unions, that's my left wing view and good on them if they and succeed in doing so but, I'll be damned if I ever listen to anyone on the left telling me how I should lead my life and what to do and what to eat and how I spend my time, I've been a minor victim of it.

I'd use it as dunny paper before I read it.

No offense, but that's quite clear that you are under the total tutelage of Capitalism.
All you write is typically Capitalist craps.

Do you remember the old story demonstrating the stupidity of the value of money?

Here is the Australian version:

You buy a liter of water 1$ in Melbourne, you get 1kg of gold in your safe that costs 40'000$.

You cross the Australian desert in your nice car with your liter of water and your 1 kg of gold. Your car get a technical problem in the middle of the desert. No assistance. What get the most value for you? Your liter of water or your kilo of gold.

Market, price of commodities... that's all craps.
Billionaires and politicians exploiting workers must be put in jail.

Wake up my friend. You defend a dubious cause.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Wake up my friend. You defend a dubious cause.

And you live in a world of make believe

But I do know I'm not wanting anything

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

And you live in a world of make believe

But I do know I'm not wanting anything

As an exploited Capitalist slave I will be going on holiday abroad tomorrow spending my hard earned money on foreign produce thereby supporting other Capitalist slaves.
You may need to explain the concept of foreign holidays to those who live(d) under Communist regimes as they have a tendency to shoot anyone other than their party mouth-pieces who dare to attempt to leave the state.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

As an exploited Capitalist slave I will be going on holiday abroad tomorrow spending my hard earned money on foreign produce thereby supporting other Capitalist slaves.

Flying Business Class I hope Can't have a superior VEF mod flying among the common folk crammed in like cattle in coach now can we