Questions for our American friends

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Ah.. the sins of the father. Did you have something specific in mind? Noriega, the Contras, and similar? What's the time frame you're talking about? I can only imagine what our government is capable of-- knowing that we have been just as ruthless as anyone else on the planet.

It also seems there's a difference to be made in terms of actual refugees, and people who simply hop the fence because they feel they have the right to be here.

Let's work some numbers here.

The four percent you reference is the same 12 million figure that's been in use for the past 10 years. After 8 years of Obama's open border policies, nobody in their right minds thinks that number didn't rise dramatically. It's probably doubled by now.. but we'll never know because we have no bloody idea who is here. I wonder how many are here that have been deported more than once and are back yet again.

Suppose one million Mexicans crossed the border during the Obama years. If they'd all come across at once instead of in smaller groups, it would be nothing short of an invasion. The end result is the same.

Almost from its inception the CIA provided arms and training to right wing paramilitary groups in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to fight against peasant groups seeking land reform. These groups of thugs waged extralegal campaigns of intimidation and terror against the indigenous farmers for decades. As a result, no rule of law has ever been established and gangs have grown up in the cities of those countries. The refugees we are currently seeing are fleeing from those countries, Cuba, Haiti, Venezuela and Columbia.

Contrary to your assertions, many former Mexican immigrants returned to Mexico after 2007 because the manufacturing plants established under NAFTA provided better jobs than they were finding here. There are actually over 1 million fewer illegal immigrants here from Mexico than there were 10 years ago. Obama greatly stepped up immigration enforcement and deportations, but focused on convicted criminals and those caught entering rather than family types or dispossessing the DACAS. Obama actually deported more people than Trump has, but what is causing the outcry is Trump is kicking out refugees and long time residents including veterans, DACAs, Iraqui Christians, and Afghans and Iraquis who aided our war efforts.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...n-from-mexico/

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

xyzd---
You have made many statements about what is wrong or what you think needs to be done. Just which, if any, type of government would you prefer??
Anarchy doesn't count as sooner or later a strong person comes along and starts government all over again.

I don't care about the type of government, more caring and honest it will be, better I'd consider it.

If everybody is fair, total anarchy is possible, if there are a lot of assholes, a strong but fair dictature is good too.

No political systems are wrong, as long there are composed by fair people.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I don't care about the type of government, more caring and honest it will be, better I'd consider it.

If everybody is fair, total anarchy is possible, if there are a lot of assholes, a strong but fair dictature is good too.

No political systems are wrong, as long there are composed by fair people.

And we keep getting back to our initial difficulty of needing a much better grade of human beings than we currently have.

The planet may actually be on the verge of solving this problem for us. If warmer temperatures, melting ice caps, and slowing ocean currents have the predicted climate effects of drastically changing weather patterns, disrupting growing seasons, crashing agricultural output, and greatly reducing fresh water supplies, there will be some changes made.

Right now we have 7 billion people on the planet. The anticipated changes most likely will reduce the carry capacity of the planet to somewhat less than 2 billion people. The Middle East should be the first area to collapse, with China, India, Japan, and Europe not too far behind. A goodly portion of the coastal United States will be under water and the much of its western portion even more arid than it currently is. The surviving remnant truly will live in interesting times.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Decadence

You know I struggle to make any sense whatsoever of your posts.

Are you saying extreme left people are not glad to buy cheap fruits and vegetables? Not to mention the concept of extreme right people voting against illegal immigration... ?

Extreme left people think that eating fruits and vegetables is a fundamental right that has to be given to people who didn't decide to come on this planet.
Exploiting orchards workers to get cheap fruits and vegetables is unethical.
Would you like to work at their place? Feel free to go, you and all the members of your family. You will earn 19000$ a year. You will contribute to improve the American way of life.

I think that I could have the right to go when I want in the USA or in Japan or Algeria. Nobody in these "countries" get the right to kick me out.
As long as I'm not a criminal, am I not a honest member of your species, don't I share the same common ancesters?

That's fun to know that extreme right people would be glad to emigrate if their land would become an area impossible to survive in.

[ManofKent]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

What's the difference between a snake and a lawyer laying in the middle of the road?

There are skid marks in front of the snake.

That reminds me of a joke I once heard Bobby Ewing say on Dallas:

What do you call a a busload of Lawyers going over a cliff?

A Start...

(or something like that)

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

And we keep getting back to our initial difficulty of needing a much better grade of human beings than we currently have.

The planet may actually be on the verge of solving this problem for us. If warmer temperatures, melting ice caps, and slowing ocean currents have the predicted climate effects of drastically changing weather patterns, disrupting growing seasons, crashing agricultural output, and greatly reducing fresh water supplies, there will be some changes made.

Right now we have 7 billion people on the planet. The anticipated changes most likely will reduce the carry capacity of the planet to somewhat less than 2 billion people. The Middle East should be the first area to collapse, with China, India, Japan, and Europe not too far behind. A goodly portion of the coastal United States will be under water and the much of its western portion even more arid than it currently is. The surviving remnant truly will live in interesting times.

I learned all these possible facts about 30 years ago and during 20 years, medias and politicians mocked scientifics. Today people still dream about big cars, travelling all around the world and having children in a big house.
I'm so glad not having made children.
As wrote a philosopher called Bernard Stiegler, he spoke more and more with teenagers thinking that they are among the last generations of humans. He even think that grandparents are aware about this.
How pityful.

Reading some members of this forum and speaking with the people, I observe that they do not care a shit about the future of their descendants.
The difference between them and rats is negligible.
Maybe it's because we share 90% of the same DNA structure?
I don't know.

[palo5]

I may have asked this before, but if I did, I can't remember the answer

Blame my Alzheimer's & dementia

Anyway, it's about an American expression "to pull yourself up by the bootstraps"

I get what it means, but mechanically pulling yourself up by the bootstraps sounds unimaginably difficult. Is it really possible? If so, how do you do it?

[bombermouse]

Originally Posted by palo5

I may have asked this before, but if I did, I can't remember the answer

Blame my Alzheimer's & dementia

Anyway, it's about an American expression "to pull yourself up by the bootstraps"

I get what it means, but mechanically pulling yourself up by the bootstraps sounds unimaginably difficult. Is it really possible? If so, how do you do it?

Physically impossible, which is why right wing politicians say poor people can do it to become prosperous.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I'm so glad not having made children.

So am I!!!!

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Decadence

I guess to be fair, the USDA numbers that said half of all farm workers are either legal immigrants or citizens reflected the entire country, not simply northern California. Oddly enough, here in the midwest, agriculture is still huge and most of it is still performed by old white guys (as you put it).

Tractor work, almost exclusively. You'll find anglo farmers doing tractor and irrigation work, as I noted. You do that at 50, 60 or even 70. Bend over to pick grapes, not so much.

Originally Posted by The Rapidly Aging U.S. Farmer

Everyone knows American workers are aging, but farmers are longer in the tooth than workers in almost any other occupation. According to the Labor Department, the median age for farmers and ranchers is 55.9 years, second among tracked occupations only to “motor vehicle operators, other,” who have a median age of 59.2.

It’s not just that farmers are among America’s oldest workers – their average age also has been growing rapidly for about 30 years, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Census of Agriculture, which recently released new data. This census, which is published every five years, shows that during the last 30 years, the average age of U.S. farmers has grown by nearly eight years, from 50.5 years to 58.3 years.

more at:
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/da...ing-much-older

Note that median age of 56 years -- that means that half the farmers are older than that; this is not a population that's going to walk up and down rows of, say, avocados bending over and picking them, day in, day out.