Tanks!!

[paul163]

AMX -30 División Acorazada Brunete nº1- Reg. Infantería Acorazada Alcazar de Toledo 61 ( RIAC 61) in the 80s..

[mjm1963]

The 7.5 cm Kampfwagenkanone 42 L/70 ( Panther tank) went on to be fitted to the French AMX13 and Israeli M50 Sherman

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by mjm1963

The 7.5 cm Kampfwagenkanone 42 L/70 ( Panther tank) went on to be fitted to the French AMX13 and Israeli M50 Sherman

True?...or true enough for government work?....well there is considerable disagreement on this point-the safest answer is that the AMX13's gun was probably influenced by the Panther's gun design-but in reality, the AMX13 gun was shorter at 61 calibres-and used an autoloader-so right away you're different from the KwK42-then the AMX 13 gun used a 75x 597R round, the Panther a 75 x 640R round.....so now you've got a gun with a shorter barrel, different breech system, smaller cartridge-so different chamber as well-hmmn let me see....that sounds EXACTLY like the same weapon...

[mjm1963]

Dr Pepper - I bow my head

In truth my source is an old Israeli who served in the Armored Corps in the 1950's and 1960's. He trained in France at the time when Israel were converting Shermans to M50 (with the long 75mm) and according to his instructors, the gun was definitely based on the Panther gun. Then again, define "based"

[paul163]

[paul163]

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by mjm1963

Dr Pepper - I bow my head

In truth my source is an old Israeli who served in the Armored Corps in the 1950's and 1960's. He trained in France at the time when Israel were converting Shermans to M50 (with the long 75mm) and according to his instructors, the gun was definitely based on the Panther gun. Then again, define "based"

I can find it in my heart to forgive you;-) ....this one is one of the many 'truth' in the AFV compendium that seems to wilt a bit under close scrutiny. 'Based on' the Panther gun is quite a bit different from the French cunningly finding all the jigs, tooling and fixtures-plus the machine tools all intact at Krupp's and then restarting production-or shifting it to France outright and busily making KwK42/L70s for the AMX 13 production line...

I've posted earlier (though I don't recall if it was this thread) that the last 6 Panthers off the production line were produced for-and at the behest of-the British-by the original factory workers The british wanted them for comparative testing against their own new vehicle designs...

"based on" to me in this context means adopting/adapting some/many of the design parameters, obviously the useful ones, eliminating the troublesome-or unnecessary ones- to produce a weapon (in this case) of similar appearance, operating system and performance-without slavishly producing an exact copy of the original. Many products in this world are "based on" earlier items...

[paul163]

[Dr Pepper]

Rottenfuhrer Balthasar 'Bobby' Woll- who was Wittmans gunner-and one of the finest tank gunners of WW2. Eventually went on to command a Tiger in his own right-and survived the war. He was recuperating from wounds in a field hospital when Wittman made his last fateful charge. 'Rottenfuhrer' is an SS roughly equivalent to section commander rank,but Woll went on to be an oberscharfuhrer- CSM equivalent so WO2 in Commonwealth parlance. Apparently one of those rare individuals who are natural marksmen.....

[Dr Pepper]

Picture didn't upload for some reason-I seem to have lost my ability to upload-but you can see Bobby Woll here: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ro...in%25252F55485