Things Noticeable this week - Page 3741

**Rogerbh** · March 16th, 2019, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

I don't think that's true, at least not in the way you put it. In the 1940s the Americans didn't like empires, even if "friends" had them. Note their dislike of the British Empire. But politically they feared communism much more. This ideological fear could be manipulated by others, but I don't think they became involved in Vietnam for love of French colonialism

From what I have read, the OSS who worked with Ho Chi Min (tactical advice, weapons, etc. supposedly taught Giap how to throw grenades, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSS_Deer_Team) reported to their superiors that we should support Ho. They were overruled by those who wanted to help rebuild France. Not that it helped much with getting France to go along with other things we wanted to do. Never heard that the support in the late 40's for France over Ho in Vietnam was related to stopping the spread of communism.

**scoundrel** · March 16th, 2019, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo2nd

There have got to be better ways of expanding U.S. power, prestige, and influence in the world. Not every nation can be in a position to loot a wealthy subcontinent like India, although the notion that such banditry is honorable and prestigious is open to question.

If by any chance you are referencing the British Empire as was, don't forget that the USA has most of the productive part of North America and looted that in an honourable and prestigious way. I thought Lyndon Larouche was dead, BTW.

But you are right that we should be moving a long way away from military adventurism, especially in a 21st Century world where the damage from such behaviour spreads far and wide. America and other countries will prosper far more in a world of peace and stable relationships. In this connection and in a week of rotten bad news, one more hopeful development has been the decision in the US senate, 54-46 to demand an end to US support for Saudi Arabia's war of aggression against Yemen and to curtail the president's war powers in this regard. This was in spite of Republican senate leader Mitch McConnell's attempt to rally the Republican senators against the motion and it reflects that a considerable number of Republican senators remain extremely offended both by the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and by the flippant and collusive behaviour of Mr Trump towards this crime; and some of them aren't willing to turn the page on that one.

An American disengagement from the utterly unjustified Yemen campaign would be a humane and positive development in itself, and any harm it does to the regime in Saudi Arabia will also be a good thing. People can be judged by the company they keep, and I wish Britain too would do a lot more to distance itself from these evil people.

**Paddy Bog** · March 16th, 2019, 07:43 PM

There is a great term that a U.S. Marine who served in Vietnam used in describing the war - "Cluster Fuck." Guess you could use it to describe any war that the politicians of the world decide to start.

**charliels531** · March 16th, 2019, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

When you country is in a shooting war, you don't pose for the cameras with combatants from the opposing side. You may protest against your own side doing wrong things and fighting in a wrong cause - actually you have a duty to do that if you honestly feel your country is in the wrong. America was patently in the wrong throughout the Vietnam War. But Ms Fonda shouldn't have wanted American boys to get killed when the shooting was on - and if that wasn't what she wanted, then why did she pose for that photograph? After all, American servicemen were being betrayed by the elites sending them into harms way in a wrong cause, and their loyalty to their own country was being miserably exploited and abused. They were also victims of a crime perpetrated in America's name by the military-industrial complex. Other were sending them and they were being sacrificed so that others would make a cash profit. By her actions, Ms Fonda was showing her desire that the servicemen so wrongly treated (her fellow countrymen) should get hurt.

You see my point?

Nope.

The United States has a very clear, very simple way to go to war. Our Constitution spells it out. The last time we were in a legal war was 1945.

So some cowboy gets his hands on the nuclear football and wants to make people think he has a big cock. By your reasoning anyone who goes to a target country and tries to stop him is a traitor.

Today is the 51st anniversary of the My Lai massacre. By your reasoning William Calley is a hero and Hugh Thompson is a traitor.

**Brecht** · March 16th, 2019, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

I don't think that's true, at least not in the way you put it. In the 1940s the Americans didn't like empires, even if "friends" had them. Note their dislike of the British Empire. But politically they feared communism much more. This ideological fear could be manipulated by others, but I don't think they became involved in Vietnam for love of French colonialism

I didn't say they stepped in to save French colonial rule in the 1940s but the misunderstanding is my fault because I should have added that this would occur in the 1950s when "fighting communism" justified everything.

Back when the OSS established contact with Ho Chi Minh and his group, he was either very good at concealing the fact that he was a communist or the Americans were just too blind and ignorant of what was going on. Ho Chi Minh was an impressive character, educated and bright and quite capable of winning the hearts of his people. It appears the Americans who met him were fascinated by his charm, wisdom and calm nature. There was one particular OSS agent who became close to Ho Chi Minh but was accidentally killed by Ho Chi Minh's men who have mistaken him for a French soldier. Maybe I got something wrong here, so don't take my word for it.

Of course, saving French colonial interests was not the actual purpose of US intervention but an event that served their anti-communist crusade.

**SanteeFats** · March 16th, 2019, 07:57 PM

Those that weren't there should just shut up IMO.

**scoundrel** · March 16th, 2019, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliels531

Today is the 51st anniversary of the My Lai massacre. By your reasoning William Calley is a hero and Hugh Thompson is a traitor.

Tosh.

**Devius** · March 16th, 2019, 09:18 PM

Demonstrators have smashed and looted shops in Paris in a resurgence of the gilets jaunes ("yellow vest") protests that started four months ago in France.

Rioters torched a luxury handbag store and vandalised an upscale restaurant on the famed Champs-Élysées avenue.

Police used water cannon and tear gas to disperse the protesters. More than 120 people were arrested.

The protests began over fuel tax rises but have since developed into a broader revolt against perceived elitism.

Police say about 10,000 people took part in Saturday's protest in the French capital, a marked increase compared with similar demonstrations in recent weeks.

Some 32,300 in total took to the streets throughout France, according to the Interior Ministry.

Details:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47596476

**SanteeFats** · March 16th, 2019, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliels531

Nope.

Today is the 51st anniversary of the My Lai massacre. By your reasoning William Calley is a hero and Hugh Thompson is a traitor.

Do you not acknowledge all the atrocities that the VC did against POW's?? The way they treated men like McCain?
And don't give me the crap about them being the poor invadees, that does not excuse their actions with the prisoners they tortured and abused.
Just like it does not excuse any US atrocities either.

**Mal Hombre** · March 16th, 2019, 10:13 PM

Actually,The North Vietnamese were the Invaders...

March 16th, 2019, 09:18 PM	#37408
Devius Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: It's a London Thing.... Posts: 23,588 Thanks: 142,460 Thanked 228,846 Times in 23,624 Posts	Yellow vest protests: Violence returns to streets of Paris Demonstrators have smashed and looted shops in Paris in a resurgence of the gilets jaunes ("yellow vest") protests that started four months ago in France. Rioters torched a luxury handbag store and vandalised an upscale restaurant on the famed Champs-Élysées avenue. Police used water cannon and tear gas to disperse the protesters. More than 120 people were arrested. The protests began over fuel tax rises but have since developed into a broader revolt against perceived elitism. Police say about 10,000 people took part in Saturday's protest in the French capital, a marked increase compared with similar demonstrations in recent weeks. Some 32,300 in total took to the streets throughout France, according to the Interior Ministry. Details: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47596476 __________________ "I've had it with them, I've had it with you, I've had it with ALL THIS - I WANT ROOM SERVICE!* I want the club sandwich, I want the cold Mexican beer, I want a $10,000-a-night hooker!"* Johnny Mnemonic (1995)

March 16th, 2019, 10:13 PM	#37410
Mal Hombre El Super Moderador Join Date: May 2009 Location: Adoptive Monkey Hanger Posts: 58,186 Thanks: 773,279 Thanked 856,422 Times in 57,617 Posts	Actually,The North Vietnamese were the Invaders... __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. If in doubt, Just ask Yourself What Would Max Do ? It is a porn site,But its a Classy porn site. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

March 16th, 2019, 07:43 PM	#37403
Paddy Bog Vintage Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Beyond the Pale Posts: 961 Thanks: 44,589 Thanked 56,924 Times in 1,015 Posts	There is a great term that a U.S. Marine who served in Vietnam used in describing the war - "Cluster Fuck." Guess you could use it to describe any war that the politicians of the world decide to start.

March 16th, 2019, 07:57 PM	#37406
SanteeFats Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 60,915 Thanks: 282,079 Thanked 815,450 Times in 60,964 Posts	Those that weren't there should just shut up IMO.