Things Noticeable this week

[Mal Hombre]

So if someone ejected You from Your apartment because You'd "Done nothing with it" would that be ok ?
The State of Israel was founded by cowardly terrorist vermin,Who spent the Second World War safe in Palestine,While British soldiers fought and died to defeat the Nazis.Then these heroes planted bombs in hotels and murdered British soldiers,They were only given someone's else's country because the Western Allies were so horrified by the Holocaust.
What next,Are You going to start quoting some magic book,To show that Israel's ethnic cleansing was justifiable ?

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by trailmaster

Tough luck. The Palestinians had that land for thousands of years and did nothing with it, absolutely nothing. Then in 1948 the nation of Israel is born.Decades later they decide that if the Palestinians won't use the land then Israel will to build new settlements. If the Palestinians want the land back then they will have to fight for it, but unlike the Israelis they have no modern weapons and no support. The other Islam countries know by now that any hostilities directed at the Israelis will bring America into the conflict and they don't want that. So the Palestinians can rant and rave and nothing will happen. I will not shed one tear for them.

Actually the Palestinians farmed that land, being poor dessert land most of it was used for animals, but I am amazed at the Western Opinion that taking someone else s entire country is justifiable in any way! The settlements are being build to house people who have mainly come to Israel and settled since the 1948 declaration and are several of the many hundreds of causes of UN resolutions, all of which have been ignored.

[trailmaster]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

So if someone ejected You from Your apartment because You'd "Done nothing with it" would that be ok ?
The State of Israel was founded by cowardly terrorist vermin,Who spent the Second World War safe in Palestine,While British soldiers fought and died to defeat the Nazis.Then these heroes planted bombs in hotels and murdered British soldiers,They were only given someone's else's country because the Western Allies were so horrified by the Holocaust.
What next,Are You going to start quoting some magic book,To show that Israel's ethnic cleansing was justifiable ?

Millions of European Jews who survived the Holocaust were given the choice to escape to Palestine and over many years the nation of Israel was born. Like I said the Palestinians were doing nothing with this land. And it took a few wars such as "The six day war"and the "Yom Kippur" war for Israel to establish itself as a real nation. The British were holding onto the territory because of the oil and thought that they would lose it. It took many negotiations for the British to finally give up their claim and let Israel become a great state. Both American armies and British armies fought during World War 2 in Tobruk, Libya to keep the Nazi's from getting the oil. That's one of the reasons that Germany started to lose the war. They were spread out too far and ran out of oil and gas for their trucks, tanks, planes. This conflict is very complex and I may not know enough about it as you, but I disagree with you that Israel was founded by "cowardly terrorist vermin".

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

Actually the Palestinians farmed that land, being poor dessert land most of it was used for animals, but I am amazed at the Western Opinion that taking someone else s entire country is justifiable in any way! The settlements are being build to house people who have mainly come to Israel and settled since the 1948 declaration and are several of the many hundreds of causes of UN resolutions, all of which have been ignored.

I don't see how you can say this. The British empire over centuries took over other countries and occupied them: India, South Africa, Kenya and Uganda, Rhodesia, and others in Africa, just as France, Belgium and Portugal did, until eventually all these nations fought for independence. This is the way of our world. The strong nations conquered weaker ones and took them over. The Roman Empire spanned half of the known world 2500 years ago.

[Mal Hombre]

You weren't there,I wasn't there, My Father was,My opinion on the State of Israel is mild compared to His..

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by trailmaster

I don't see how you can say this. The British empire over centuries took over other countries and occupied them: India, South Africa, Kenya and Uganda, Rhodesia, and others in Africa, just as France, Belgium and Portugal did, until eventually all these nations fought for independence. This is the way of our world. The strong nations conquered weaker ones and took them over. The Roman Empire spanned half of the known world 2500 years ago.

We live in a different World now, I can not justify the taking over by the British Empire of anything, by today's standards. The Palestinians had no choice, because the West was determined to atone for the Holocaust, Israel is hugely supported by the West, mainly the US, and the Palestinians will never be strong enough to beat the US!

America exists because it was settled by Europeans, and European weaponry defeated the indigenous population, but that was many years ago, do you not see a touch of hypocrisy in that WWII was fought to free the nations of Europe and a very few years later the West enslaved another? Perhaps the Palestinians were untermensch? now there is true irony!!!

[rupertramjet]

Two charts, there really is not even historical justification! The rise in Jewish percentage is marked from 1945 until the present, but also remember that most Palestinians are kept out of the State of Israel, so do not figure in these charts for recent years. I am not anti Israel, despite what mat appear, facts is facts!


Year

Jews
(core population)
Non-Jews
Total Population
% Jewish
1517
5,000
295,000
~300,000
1.7%
1882
24,000
276,000
300,000
8.0%
1918
60,000
600,000
660,000
8.1%
1931
174,610
861,211
1,035,821
16.9%
1936
384,078
982,614
1,366,692
28.1%
1946
543,000
1,267,037
1,810,037
30.0%
1948
716,700
156,000
872,700
82.1%
1950
1,203,000
167,100
1,370,100
87.8%
1955
1,590,500
198,600
1,789,100
88.9%
1960
1,911,300
239,100
2,150,400
88.9%
1965
2,299,100
299,300
2,598,400
88.5%
1970
2,582,000
440,100
3,022,100
85.5%
1975
2,959,400
533,800
3,493,200
84.7%
1980
3,282,700
639,000
3,921,700
83.7%
1985
3,517,200
749,000
4,266,200
82.5%
1990
3,946,700
875,000
4,821,700
81.9%
1995
4,522,300
1,090,000
5,612,300
80.6%
2000
4,955,400
1,413,900
6,369,300
77.8%
2005
5,313,800
1,676,900
6,990,700
76.0%
2010
5,802,900
1,892,200
7,695,100
75.4%
2015
6,217,400
2,078,000
8,295,400
75%
2017
6,484,000
2,196,000
8,680,000
74.7%


Year
Jews Christians Muslims Total Early 1st c. Majority – – ~2,500 Early 4th c. Majority Minority – >1st c.[1][2] 5th c. Minority Majority – >1st c. 6th c. Minority Majority –
7th c. Minority Majority –
8th c. Minority Majority Minority
9th c. Minority Majority Minority
10th c. Minority Majority Minority
11th c. Minority Majority Minority
End 12th c. Minority Minority Majority >225 14th c. Minority Minority Majority 150 1533–1539 5 6 145 157 1690–1691 2 11 219 232 1800 7 22 246 275 1890 43 57 432 532 1914 94 70 525 689 1922 84 71 589 752 1931 175 89 760 1,033 1947 630 143 1,181 1,970

[Rogerbh]

I recall one surprise when I went to law school. The first chapter in the textbook on "Property" was regarding acquisition - its subject - "By Conquest".

[cicciobuki]

Today in Liege, belgium, a criminal (or terrorist, it's not clear yet) on penitentiary leave murdered 2 (female) police officers (stabbed them in the back, took their gun and killed them with it) and at least 1 civilian (a student).


Some time later a special unit of the police took him down in a short but intense shoot-out. For now it is not sure if it was intended as an act of terrorism, as the facts aren't too clear yet.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

The Palestinians had no choice, because the West was determined to atone for the Holocaust,

What about the Balfour Declaration that supported a homeland for the jewish people in Palestine - that was in 1917?

Hitler was a still a corporal on the Western Front and the Holocaust was just a glint in his eye.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

I recall one surprise when I went to law school. The first chapter in the textbook on "Property" was regarding acquisition - its subject - "By Conquest".

Very interesting. Thank you.

Here are more links in case of you are interested.

Right of conquest

The right of conquest is the right of a conqueror to territory taken by force of arms. It was traditionally a principle of international law that has gradually given way in modern times until its proscription after World War II when the crime of war of aggression was first codified in the Nuremberg Principles and then finally, in 1974, as United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314.

Proponents state that this right acknowledges the status quo, and that denial of the right is meaningless unless one is able and willing to use military force to deny it. Further, the right was traditionally accepted because the conquering force, being by definition stronger than any lawfully entitled governance which it may have replaced, was therefore more likely to secure peace and stability for the people, and so the Right of Conquest legitimises the conqueror towards that end. [Note: not verified in body]

The completion of colonial conquest of much of the world (see the Scramble for Africa), the devastation of World War I and World War II, and the alignment of both the United States and the Soviet Union with the principle of self-determination led to the abandonment of the right of conquest in formal international law. The 1928 Kellogg–Briand Pact, the post-1945 Nuremberg Trials, the UN Charter, and the UN role in decolonization saw the progressive dismantling of this principle. Simultaneously, the UN Charter's guarantee of the "territorial integrity" of member states effectively froze out claims against prior conquests from this process.

Nuremberg principles

United Nations : 3314 (XXIX) 14 December 1974 DEFINITION OF AGGRESSION

[...]

3. Calls upon all States to refrain from all acts of aggression and other uses of force contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and the Declarations on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

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