Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[palo5]

Originally Posted by ********

It would have to be a simple leave/remain.

Should the UK leave the EU with the deal as negotiated, or remain in the EU?

What if there's no deal?

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

What if there's no deal?

1. We leave anyway.
2. We seek a free trade agreement to replace the No Deal arrangement as soon as possible and if possible.
3. We invite Mrs May to seek a new place of domicile in case she should experience bad luck with her health.

I'd be inclined to exile Mrs May anyway. The only really worthwhile achievement of her premiership so far is that she has made moves to re-legalise fox hunting much more politically dangerous for the Tory Party than previously. They also flew this kite under Cameron after the 2015 election but the SNP were prepared to break their own purdah on England and Wales only votes and set a three line whip against fox hunting, which would have guaranteed a government defeat. The urge to do this vile and base thing burns deep in Tory Party DNA, but aversion to political defeat burns even deeper. Theresa May is bad, sly deceitful and weak. I would not miss her.

I honestly believe that the only rational Brexit strategy for Britain is to negotiate a free trade agreement. Mr Tusk has already signaled that the EU is willing to discuss this option and after all they export a lot to Britain and a no-deal Brexit isn't much of a result for them either. Mrs May's Chequers plan is not likely to survive rational scrutiny from Mr Barnier and when it changes significantly after negotiations it then has to survive the reaction of the conflicting wings of Tory and DUP opinion. I sense a change of government is on the cards and (rather than a second referendum) a new general election is very possible.

At least it won't be dull.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by ********

Then it would be

Should the UK comit economic suicide or remain in the EU?

Economic suicide? Do you mean like not joining the Euro was going to be economic suicide? Like not joining the ERM was going to be economic suicide?

Project Fear again - but the trouble is I am suffering from adrenaline poisoning. The little boy has cried wolf much too often.

[jacques22]

Originally Posted by judy84

The Electoral Commission report alleges that Vote Leave had overspent their £7 million budget by £499,000, equating to just 7.1%.
The Electoral Commission is infamous for its members being part of the pro-Remain Establishment, as has been widely reported in the press.
Confidence in the elections watchdog is evaporating as it emerged that almost half of its board have made public statements criticising the pro-Brexit campaign or backing calls for the result to be overturned, despite strict impartiality rules.

Very Trumpian to try and discredit the Electoral Commission while starting a conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted by judy84

The Commission led several inquiries into the official Leave campaign but never looked into alleged illicit collusion by pro-Remain campaign groups.

That's a groundless accusation. The Electoral Commission saw no accounting irregularity in the Remain campaign. In the case of the Leave campaign, they could see money going from Vote Leave to Aggregate IQ via BeLeave. If half the board were pro-Remain as you claim above, then there must have been a few pro-Leave officials to track the money trail of the Remain campaign and spot anything suspicious.

Originally Posted by judy84

Part of the £9.3 million that the government spent on its propaganda for Remain went on the internet in the form of 'digital promotion'.
Day after day we are told that Russia or Cambridge Analytica or Donald Trump or Arron Banks or someone else bought the result of the Referendum. In fact, the British government spent almost £3 million on a website and on 'digital promotion', in order to influence the result for Remain.

Nothing wrong with what Cameron did. It's about the rule of law: is it legal or illegal? Cameron was the prime minister at that time, did you seriously expect him to stay put on such an important topic as Brexit? And I'm sure you would have been happy if a prime minister had backed the Leave campaign. On the other hand, financing a campaign with foreign money is illegal. But it's funny for a pro-sovereignty Brexiter to put on the same level Cameron's political actions and the destabilisation attempts of a foreign power.

Originally Posted by judy84

Amongst complaints about the Remain campaign was Prit Patel's : Britain Stronger in Europe avoided breaching its spending limits by channeling funds through smaller Remain campaigns which were set up less than a month before the referendum vote.

Same old groundless conspiracy theories. Where's the evidence? Even the pro-Leave officials of the Electoral Commission found nothing.
But hey, we know the Electoral Commission, May, the government and civil servants are traitors, betraying "the will of the people", and only Farage, Rees-Mogg and Johnson are pure and protecting democracy.

[seany65]

Originally Posted by ********

It would have to be a simple leave/remain.

Should the UK leave the EU with the deal as negotiated, or remain in the EU?

Hmmm. It seems to me that your 2 options means the leavers who don't want the deal will have their votes ignored altogether.


Jacques22: Financing a campaign with foreign money may be illegal, but have any remainers, or their European sympathisers complained about George Soros giving money to the campaign to get a second referendum? I don't think so.

And just before anyone starts complaining, No, I couldn't care less if George Soros is Jewish or not. It's irrelevant.

[jacques22]

Originally Posted by seany65

Jacques22: Financing a campaign with foreign money may be illegal, but have any remainers, or their European sympathisers complained about George Soros giving money to the campaign to get a second referendum? I don't think so.

Soros made a donation to Best for Britain, which is pushing for having a second referendum. It's not illegal. It would have been illegal if Soros had made a donation to the Remain campaign.
The British laws are what they are (https://www.loc.gov/law/help/campaig...tedkingdom.php). If the Tories or UKIP are unhappy with Soros' donation, then they can try to have tighter laws forbidding foreigners from donating to British groups/associations, even if it's not directly for an electoral campaign or a political party.

[seany65]

So "Best for Britain", who want a second referendum, are not actually Remainers and the campaign for a second referendum is not a Remainer aim?

[palo5]

Originally Posted by seany65

Hmmm. It seems to me that your 2 options means the leavers who don't want the deal will have their votes ignored altogether.

They're used to that on the island. They have a FPTP electoral system where half the votes don't count in elections

Sorry to be cynical, but it's true

[jacques22]

Originally Posted by seany65

So "Best for Britain", who want a second referendum, are not actually Remainers and the campaign for a second referendum is not a Remainer aim?

Again, the law is the law. Best for Britain is not doing anything illegal. They are not directly campaigning to remain in the EU, they are just backing a second referendum. They would only break the law if they were to campaign for Remain in a referendum. It might be a subtle nuance for you, but in a court it would be really straightforward. If the Brexiters want to shut down Best for Britain, then they must change UK laws.

[Brecht]

Wow, the British establishment must really be afraid of Jeremy Corbyn and a genuine Labour Party. Now I'm not up to date with everything currently going on in the UK but I stumbled upon an article today morning that disgusts me beyond words. Apparently three Jewish newspapers, the Jewish Chronicle, Jewish News and the Jewish Telegraph have launched an unparalleled campaign of slander against Mr. Corbyn. They even went so far as claiming that a government led by Corbyn could pose an existential threat to all British Jews. I think Mr. Corbyn ought to sue their arrogant asses right now.

The British mainstream press have been on the forefront of a smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn ever since he got elected as Labour's new leader. At the same time, the chauvinists who think Brexit is going to resurrect the British Empire, hate him for not being a staunch Brexiteer or whatever the fuck they blame him for. Now since nothing worked in bringing him down, let's send out a couple of Jewish organisations and newspapers to make him look like a new Hitler.