Current or modern politics in the United States

[The Rev]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Gerald Celente is a nut, and a nobody, who is good at only one thing -- being entertaining on television. So far as I can determine, he's never had any real job investing money or making decisions for anyone -- he's a "consultant" so he says, a "consultant" to whom, exactly?

Your crazy drunk uncle at Thanksgiving is equally compelling. Celente is in the same category as Peter Schiff, someone who makes their money selling the zombie apocalypse story to folks who can't be bothered to check what he said yesterday.

There's a nice review of Celente's dubious predictions, at "Gerald Celente, Futurist Fraud"
http://www.edrants.com/gerald-celente-futurist-fraud/

Says you and all of the liberal nut jobs out there who want to sugar coat it for the sheeple who want to hear what they want to hear. This liberalism is a mental disorder I swear.

But Yeah, you're right. There is nothing to worry about. I'm just going into panic mode here. We can trust Obama with everything he says and does. Same with other world politicians. They'll pay off that 18 trillion dollar national debt no problem.

Keep on listening to those sociopaths and psychopaths they call politicians, and all of the corporate media whores who want to comfort you by saying that "everything is fine" You'll get dumber. Some people are just too stupid to not see through their lies.

There are economic bubbles everywhere, period. These politicians and economic experts know full well there is a global crash coming along with a third world war. They want this to happen. The west is finished as economic powerhouses. Mainly the U.S and Europe. While the 20th century belonged to the west, the 21st century belongs to the east. The roles are being reversed. The dollar as world reserve currency is coming to an end, it's becoming worthless and by the time you know it, you'll be using it to wipe your behind. We'll be looking back on these days as the good old days as things worse and worse economically and financially.

The economy is not getting better here or in Europe and will only get worse. There never was a recovery and never will be one. All the money printing and zero interest rates in the world will do nothing long term. It is one giant ponzi scheme.

http://www.infowars.com/the-federal-...tes-our-lives/

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by The Rev

Says you and all of the liberal nut jobs out there who want to sugar coat it for the sheeple who want to hear what they want to hear. This liberalism is a mental disorder I swear.

See, the thing is-- I pay attention to what people predicted yesterday. There are folks on TV who can get an audience with "the end is nigh" stuff . . . unimpressive. Its entertainment for the cranky, but not to be mistaken as prudent advice, whether you're liberal or conservative.

The only "mental disorder" relevant to a discussion of Celente is amnesia, not recalling how wrong he's been yesterday and the day before that . . .


Back to your bit of hyperbole

Originally Posted by The Rev

Paper money is absolutely worthless and is the reason why people are turning to precious metals such as gold.

Since paper money is "absolutely worthless" -- you'd be giving yours away, then?

By the way, gold is only "precious", because people want it. No one has a significant industrial use for it; its not a currency, but it has the defect of fiat currencies, in that its only value lies in the fact that other people are willing to ascribe value to it. Gold is kinda like Bitcoin-- it takes some trouble to mine it, and it only has the value that others are willing to ascribe to it. Or, the celebrated stone currency of the Yap islands . . . they're hard to make, so the supply is limited.

But again: its not a currency, and the comparison to currencies is misguided.

If you can find a person who'll do your dry cleaning or deliver your pizza for diamond chips or slivers of gold, well good for you. Most of us use a currency for those transactions. Here in the US, its the dollar; in Europe (mostly) the Euro, in Japan the Yen, in China the Renminbi.

That's what currency is for -- its a medium of exchange.

Gold is not a medium of exchange, hasn't been for many years, and isn't at all useful for that function. Back in the day when gold was a medium of exchange, there was an enormous overhead in storage, insurance, assaying, transport. Goldbugs ignore all those things. Gold coins will probably be valuable in the future, if you don't lose them to theft, fire, loss etc. There are real and signficant costs that make gold an unattractive currency.

If you want to own gold or diamonds as an investment, compare them to, say, stocks and bonds, real estate, or other collectibles.

In the last decade, all of the currencies have fluctuated in value against each other, but at the end of the day, the dollar has been steady or appreciated against them, and is presently at its highs . . .

[DTravel]

Rev, the simple fact is that the American President, ANY American President, has basically zero effect on the economy. He can attempt to improve morale, he can ask Congress to enact various economic laws, but that's about it. Even Congress has little effect on the economy in the short term. The Federal budget simply isn't big enough compared to the general American economy, let alone the world economy.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by DTravel

Rev, the simple fact is that the American President, ANY American President, has basically zero effect on the economy. He can attempt to improve morale, he can ask Congress to enact various economic laws, but that's about it. Even Congress has little effect on the economy in the short term. The Federal budget simply isn't big enough compared to the general American economy, let alone the world economy.

You are a smart man DT and I usually agree with you on matters of political analysis, but I have reservations about this specific view. I think a bad president can do huge damage to the US economy by either pursuing stupid policies or by simply doing nothing when positive action is essential. Herbert Hoover was a classic example. More recently, Mitt Romney in 2009 was vigorously arguing that Mr Obama was quite wrong in supporting the US automotive manufacturing sector and that it was for America's good that Chrysler and General Motors be deliberately allowed to die. Given the severity of the actual recession which was caused by the bank sector failure in 2008, the impact of such a collapse, involving the loss of many millions of manufacturing jobs across the whole industry as hundreds of smaller supply chain employers also went bankrupt, would have been truly catastrophic for the whole American economy; but vulture capitalists exactly like Mr Romney would have made a massive killing from eating the corpses. He is a specialist in leveraged buy-outs, which take healthy corporations and burden them with debts, the borrowed money being then used to pay off the previous owner (hence "buy out") and finance Mr Romney (aka "Bain Capital"), who ends up owning a large stake at precious little cost to himself, the workers of the bought out compamy having paid the price. He is just the sort of man who would benefit from a melt down of the US economy; and he is on record in 2009 for advocating that the US government should do nothing to interfere with market forces when FIAT was waiting for GM to go into liquidation so it could pick off the best bits and let everyone else go sleep on a park bench. Fucking brilliant president Mr Romney would have been.

[aphex1973]

I think it is important at this point to explain to my friends outside of the United States of America, that there is a small but passionate group of people in this country who believe that every element of government is inherently evil and ultimately acts under the direction of some nebulous global conspiracy run by liberals, socialists and communists. Historically, these people have been labeled crackpots and generally relegated to the fringes of society and had minimal political impact. This is sadly no longer the case. Today, we elect them en masse and send them to run the government they so despise. It's insane... quite literally.

The ferocity of the hatred directed towards Pres. Obama has little which can be considered substantive to back it up. If you look at the Worst Presidents thread, you can't read more than a couple of posts before you are assaulted by "Obama sucks" posts. Is the man the best president in US history? No, but he is hardly the worst. When you consider the size of the damned hole left by the former administration, I think he's actually done a pretty admirable job. He's labeled a do nothing president and yet, he has accomplished quite a bit. This is especially impressive when you consider that the Republican party has done everything within its power to block every nomination and every piece of legislation he has proposed. They've shut down the entire government for hell's sake... and apparently they're planning to do it again in February! That's not to mention the lawsuit which Sen. Boehner intends to file against the president in regards to the Affordable Care Act or his party's suggestions of impeachment. And for a political party which glories in its fiscal prowess and hatred of taxes, I would like to know how they justify the hundreds of millions of tax dollars wasted on this crap along with the seemingly endless investigations into the non-existent Benghazi conspiracy.

Enough is enough. I lived through this once already when the Republican Party went after Pres. Clinton. That was a witch hunt from beginning to end. It started out as an investigation into the Clinton's personal/business finances and ended up with a cum stain on a blouse. That whole debacle cost more money than I care to contemplate and tore this country to shreds. Before anyone labels me as some weak-kneed liberal, I would like to state that I'm not. I'm not a conservative, either. I'm a pragmatist. I want my country to function and I want to stop feeling like I have to apologize to the rest of the world for the uneducated and ill informed half-wits which we seem to seem to produce in astonishing quantities.


“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

~ Isaac Asimov

[jumbo prawns]

Originally Posted by The Rev

But Yeah, you're right. There is nothing to worry about. I'm just going into panic mode here. We can trust Obama with everything he says and does. Same with other world politicians. They'll pay off that 18 trillion dollar national debt no problem.

There is nothing more to worry about then when Reagan tripled the national debt, or when Pappy Bush nearly doubled that, or when Dubya nearly tripped that. In fact the only presidents that did anything about the national debt in recent memory were Clinton who was the last to actually start paying down the debt and Obama who is reducing the deficit faster then any other president, ever!

If the debt is so important why did the last Republican Vice President say "The debt doesn't matter" or the last Republican President say that the surplus (which is the money you have to actually pay down the debt) is the people money and we should give it back... offering the largest tax cut since Ronny Raygun and exploding the national debt.

The long and the short of this is if you don't believe in America, if you don't believe in her future, if you don't believe in her people and her strength then gold is a perfect investment for you. An investment in gold is a bet against America, it is a bet against the future.

By the way, since Obama has taken office my stock portfolio and my personal wealth has never been greater, hows that gold working out for ya? LOL! If you bought gold on Obama's first day as president it cost you about $900 per oz, today that same oz is roughly $1200... Wow a stunning 6% annual return. Just about every other investment would have netted you better returns.

When you bet against America, you will lose.

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

You are a smart man DT and I usually agree with you on matters of political analysis, but I have reservations about this specific view.

I reduced the quote for space, not out of disrespect.

The thing to remember about the President is that while he can, very publicly, call for action or say what he thinks should be done anything about changing the law or the budget has to come from Congress. President Obama asked Congress to pass a bail out bill for the auto industry and they did but if they hadn't, there was nothing he could legally do. In the American government the purse-strings are very firmly in the hands of the legislative branch.

Even in those very rare cases where it is possible to get Congress to act quickly whatever they do is not going to instantly change the direction an economy is moving. The recent bank/home mortgage crisis was in part caused by changes in banking regulation, passed by Congress, since the 1980s. Given that it took our Congress-critters 25 years of steady effort to be just one factor in trashing the economy, even if you could get them to agree on how to fix it can you really see them doing it any faster?

Trying to control the economy is like trying to control the flow of the Mississippi River x100. The US Army Corp of Engineers has been working on that for at least 150 years and still haven't succeeded.

[jumbo prawns]

Originally Posted by DTravel

President Obama asked Congress to pass a bail out bill for the auto industry and they did but if they hadn't, there was nothing he could legally do. In the American government the purse-strings are very firmly in the hands of the legislative branch.

Interesting observation, one wee problem with it, it isn't even close to being true. President Obama NEVER asked Congress to pass a bail out bill for the auto industry... That occurred on Dec 9th and Dec 11 of 2008... It was Bush 43 who asked Congress to pass a $15 million auto bail out... Oh and it gets better, you were wrong with your assertion that they passed it... they did NOT! It failed in the Senate on a 52-35 in favor procedural vote. (ya that looks like it passed, but as we know a majority in the Senate is 60/100 votes these days)

But wait! it gets even better, being faced with the prospects of being the president who let the auto industry die on his watch, Bush 43 basically ignored congress and On December 19, 2008, President Bush used his executive authority to declare that TARP funds may be spent on any program he personally deems necessary to avert the financial crisis, and gave them the money anyway!

So to this day President Obama takes credit for the Auto bailout, when in fact it was Bush who between Dec 19 and Dec 24th 2008 socialized the American auto industry. President Obama simply concluded the deal that Bush had put in place by executive order.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by jumbo prawns

So to this day President Obama takes credit for the Auto bailout, when in fact it was Bush who between Dec 19 and Dec 24th 2008 socialized the American auto industry. President Obama simply concluded the deal that Bush had put in place by executive order.

The way I remember it, Mr Bush extended federal funding for GM and for Chrysler sufficient to keep them trading for ninety days, and handed the problem to the new administration to come up with a longer term answer.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

The way I remember it, Mr Bush extended federal funding for GM and for Chrysler sufficient to keep them trading for ninety days, and handed the problem to the new administration to come up with a longer term answer.

I think I've said so before, but it bears repeating-- your knowledge of American political history is remarkable.

On the bailouts, I'd note one curiosity of the American scene, a largely succesful effort by the Republicans to rewrite history, to hear them tell it, the financial crisis was caused by lending to poor people, rather than what even Alan Greenspan has admitted is "a flaw in my model".

In the new version, for those who are not blessed with your political memory, everything would have been find if we'd just let the "market" do its work . . . I put "market" in quotes, because the market makers were insolvent, and absent intervention, there wouldn't have been a market.

The right is similarly naive about bankruptcy, imagining that the nation could have resolved its little hiccough with liquidation sales (to whom? would be the question).