Newtown - Is it Really Time for a Change?

[blondifan]

My thoughts go out to the families and those affected by this henious crime.

We have some history of similar occurances. The most notable being one that occured in my home state.

The Port Arthur massacre in 1996 transformed gun control legislation in Australia. Thirty five people were killed and 21 wounded when a man with a history of violent and erratic behaviour beginning in early childhood opened fire on shop owners and tourists with two military style semi-automatic rifles. Six weeks after the Dunblane massacre in Scotland. This mass killing at the notorious former convict prison at Port Arthur horrified the Australian public and had powerful political consequences.

Prime Minister John Howard, then newly elected, immediately took the gun law proposals developed from the report of the 1988 National Committee on Violence and forced the states to adopt them under a National Firearms Agreement. This was necessary because the Australian Constitution does not give the Commonwealth power to enact gun laws. The proposals included a ban on all semi-automatic rifles and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, and a tightly restrictive system of licensing and ownership controls.

The gun buy-back scheme started on 1 October 1996 and concluded on 30 September 1997. The buyback purchased and destroyed more than 631,000 firearms, mostly semi-auto .22 rimfires, semi-automatic shotguns and pump-action shotguns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia
Personally I'm not sure the 'buy-back' and ownership controls had the desired effect, refering to the Monash University shootings of 2002.

[otokonomidori]

Wasn't the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution made at a time when guns were single shot muzzle loaders - maybe they should interpret their Constitution literally and any knob who wants a gun should be restricted to a 1780's model.

[9876543210]

tygrkhat40,

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

There are several problems to bring about change in America's gun culture. First, is the ingrained belief that since the Bill of Rights allows for the ownership of guns, everything goes; no matter the power of the firearm or purpose. And since the SCOTUS has pretty much determined that this is what the Founding Fathers intended, this is the government-supported position.

I'm not so sure thats entirely true. I think, but am not sure, that there are limits. I don't think you can own RPG's, grenades, or tanks with operable guns. But I could be wrong.

And then there's the reason why some Americans own guns: they fear their own government. Whether it's they're coming to take your guns away, they're going to force your kids to be vaccinated, the "socialist" President will turn American sovereignty to the UN or whatever their paranoia tells them. (Obama a socialist. Most of these morons wouldn't know a socialist if they came up and kicked them in the nuts.) Too many of these people equate "gun control" with "gun confiscation."

Fearing the government? Thats certainly understandable and a concern I share. The question is though, what good would an assault rifle (or several assault rifles) actually do if the government really wants you? We all know the answer. You may get a few of them but they will also certainly get you.

Ahhh, the Socialism morons. Couldn't agree more.

The NRA die-hards won't even consider anything other than the status quo. In fact, one representative from Texas gave the inevitable response to this tragedy, if one of the teachers has a rifle in a closet, she could have ended it. Until we can change minds like this, nothing will change.

I saw part of that. I think his name is Louis Goehmert. I've been kind of amazed at what some of these people are saying. Saw someone yesterday saying that they should put iron bars at the front entrance of the school! Ohhhh, OK. What happens when the killer goes to another entrance or even a window? So all possible entrances must now be barred? For every school in the US? Who pays for that? The Republicans have been cutting school funds for years and now you want to turn all of our schools into prisons? These people are insane!

I'm watching (kind of) Chris Matthews right now and he has some idiot on who wants adults in the school to be able to carry guns. Let the janitor, or principal or teacher take care of the problem. I don't know how many teachers this idiot knows but, at least from my experience, most teachers don't have the mindset for that.

[9876543210]

Greenman,

Originally Posted by Greenman

I think one reason we have such stringent laws is because it is not tied down to a Constitution, it is a criminal offence to carry a weapon of any sort including a knife in a public place.

A knife? Any size knife? A two or three inch whittling knife? Wow! I virtually always have an 11 in. Buck knife and a filet knife with me most everywhere I go. Those would be illegal?

Licences must be carried by gun owners and they must prove the reason why they want one-if you are a farmer, game-keeper or someone that needs to control things then that is acceptable; if you are a sports shooter, like a clay-pigeon shooter or a competition shooter then that is part of the sport and of course you need to be legislated too but most organisations will issue licences etc. All guns owned MUST be placed in a locked cupboard or display cabinet or the like and secured safely away from children.

This is just common sense. But the NRA apparently believes some of this is heretical.

The biggest incidents here were a shooter on a rampage in Hungerford, who shot people in a McDonalds and in Scotland, Dunblane, a small village community devastated by a lone gunman who ran amok and also killed children(the same place where tennis player Andy Murray comes from) Those incidents strengthened the laws and Britain has the toughest laws in the world. Even secret service agents are not allowed to carry weapons unless direct authorisation is granted by the Home Secretary. The biggest difference between the US and Britain is that our police are not armed all the time, taking away the taser guns(only brought in a few years ago) we have had truncheons and sprays for years. Only the Flying Squad and SO 19 were armed and before that the SPG.

When I was young and at school, it was the one question I always asked coppers that visited-would you ever carry guns? Their answer was always "No!" The most violent criminal might use a gun but the worst incidents now seem to be with knives as they are easier to get hold of, even kitchen knives etc. We don't have a dictator, we have common sense and people in this country don't see the need for arms - plus we don't have an organisation like the National Rifle Association that is so powerful that even Presidents cower. Guns just don't play a part of everyday life for us - for some yes, but for the vast majority-no.

10-4. Thank you.

[Greenman]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

Greenman,
A knife? Any size knife? A two or three inch whittling knife? Wow! I virtually always have an 11 in. Buck knife and a filet knife with me most everywhere I go. Those would be illegal?.

I don't know the exact size but put it this way I walk around with a small penknife in my pocket but were I to have a bayonet(which my Uncle gave me once) and that is a big blade(folding up) I would be immediately arrested. Why do I carry one? Well it's not for security, it is because I use the scissors bit to cut nails or bits of skin OR anything where it is useful to cut things. I think you can use a knife as long as it is no longer than 3" unless gutting a fish if you are a fisherman or outdoors type but never in a public place. I am not likely to want to stab anyone but it wouldn't do a lot of damage as the knife bit is a little blunt.

[9876543210]

Mal Hombre,

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

...I believe there was some resistance at first but the deaths at Dunblane were a pretty unanswerable argument.

There's probably no real relevance but do you (or anyone) remember what kind of resistance there was? Did anyone fight to the end over keeping their guns? A lot of incidents? Or just a few? I fear there are probably more than a few in the US that would.

[penfold007]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

A knife? Any size knife? A two or three inch whittling knife? Wow! I virtually always have an 11 in. Buck knife and a filet knife with me most everywhere I go. Those would be illegal?

Carrying a knife in public without good reason is an offence, punishable by up to four years detention at her majesty's pleasure, unless it has a folding blade and is under 3" long, e.g. a "Swiss army" knife. Unless you could demonstrate a good reason to carry your 11" knife around with you day to day, then you might find yourself in trouble with the law.

It's not illegal to posses knives, other than those in certain categories (particularly various sorts of disguised knives).

[9876543210]

blondifan,

Originally Posted by blondifan

My thoughts go out to the families and those affected by this henious crime.

We have some history of similar occurances. The most notable being one that occured in my home state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia
Personally I'm not sure the 'buy-back' and ownership controls had the desired effect, refering to the Monash University shootings of 2002.

Interesting. I think there are a lot of parallels between the US and Australia as far as both's frontier mentality is concerned. A question. How well have these laws gone over with the people? Most people complied? Were there many that refused to comply? What happened to them?

Also, I noticed that as far as the buy back is concerned, most of the weapons returned were .22's. That would indicate to me that compliance was not very good as .22 calibers are only good for varmints and not much else. Meaning that people gave up the varmint rifle but kept the high powered rifle. Does that seem accurate?

[uli12345]

A list of shame Top 10

Weapons (Private Property)

Land:

USA 270 000 000
India 40 000 000
China 40 000 000
Germany 25 000 000
France 19 000 000
Pakistan 18 000 000
Mexico 15 500 000
Brasilia 15 000 000
Russia 12 750 000
Yemen 8 000 000

Source:
German Magazine Focus


http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschl...id_883658.html

This is all what I want to comment!

Best regards
ULI1234

[9876543210]

Greenman,

Originally Posted by Greenman

I don't know the exact size but put it this way I walk around with a small penknife in my pocket but were I to have a bayonet(which my Uncle gave me once) and that is a big blade(folding up) I would be immediately arrested. Why do I carry one? Well it's not for security, it is because I use the scissors bit to cut nails or bits of skin OR anything where it is useful to cut things. I think you can use a knife as long as it is no longer than 3" unless gutting a fish if you are a fisherman or outdoors type but never in a public place. I am not likely to want to stab anyone but it wouldn't do a lot of damage as the knife bit is a little blunt.

OK, 10-4. I also have a little Swiss Army knife actually on me physically most all of the time. So there are no problems with those. That makes sense. I almost always have the other two knives with me as I love to fish (my poles and tackle box are almost always with me as well) but the other is for security or if I need to skin something (which doesn't happen much anymore.)