Weaponry; Discussion of Rights and Responsibilities - Page 45

**Rogerbh** · June 18th, 2018, 04:22 PM

Here is one of the better results of a shooting in the US. Three separate armed citizens confront an armed criminal after he shot two people. One shot, one dead perp, doesn't make the mass shooting articles under any of the various definitions. Too bad they all don't end like this.
http://q13fox.com/2018/06/17/shootin...t-in-tumwater/ Glad to see Tumwater Washington isn't as snowflakish as most of the West Coast.

**vannax** · June 19th, 2018, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

We use to have a phrase - "Going postal" - regarding workplace violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postal However, that phrase has fallen out of use since postal employees no longer seem to be in the news for killing their co-workers, supervisors and other bosses.

I doubt that the few bullied school children who are idiotic enough to use a gun at a school will refrain from that activity like disgruntled postal employees seemingly have.

Perhaps the new phrase "going public" should be coined for school shootings.

**LadyLuck** · June 19th, 2018, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Here is one of the better results of a shooting in the US. Three separate armed citizens confront an armed criminal after he shot two people. One shot, one dead perp, doesn't make the mass shooting articles under any of the various definitions. Too bad they all don't end like this.
http://q13fox.com/2018/06/17/shootin...t-in-tumwater/ Glad to see Tumwater Washington isn't as snowflakish as most of the West Coast.

These events won't make the news cycle because they do not fit the liberal media narrative. A school shooter was stopped dead in his tracks by an armed SRO in Maryland several months back. Hardly a mention in the liberal media. There was a school shooting where the shooter used something other than an AR-15. Again, little mention in the liberal media since it does not fit the agenda. If they cannot beat the drum about assault weapons and bump stocks and high capacity magazines they are not interested.

**Rogerbh** · June 20th, 2018, 02:51 AM

Stats are seriously inflated too - CNN includes pellet gun discharges in its stats for school shootings. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...riously-flawed

**bowlinggreen** · June 20th, 2018, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Stats are seriously inflated too - CNN includes pellet gun discharges in its stats for school shootings. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...riously-flawed

That's ridiculous.

It's actually possible to kill someone with a high-powered pellet gun, if you shoot them just right, but it's not something you'd take along if you were planning on a human-killing spree. You'd actually have better luck killing a person with a wrist rocket and some decent sized rocks to the head, if that was your goal.

We used to have BB gun fights when we were kids. I suppose today our childhood gang would all be labelled as potential school shooters.

When you see things like this, it is quite clear that some people are not seriously interested in solving the problem, they just want to push their agenda through, using whatever means necessary.

**Rogerbh** · June 20th, 2018, 05:04 PM

Another problem in the US is that people with minimal training think they need to carry their pistols in "Condition 1" - That is the Jeff Cooper approved carry of a pistol (a mythic figure to many in the gun community) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper Unfortunately, a loaded pistol with or without the safety on seems to be in the news frequently for ADs (accidental discharges). http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...t-or-accident/

The Israeli approved carry method would be called Condition 3 in the US. You have to rack the slide back to load the gun. They seem to use it quite effectively. However, you mention that to a Cooper adherent and you will start a long and pretty worthless argument (in terms of changing minds). An equivalent method with revolvers would be to have the hammer down on an empty cylinder.

Too many accidents in the US that could be easily prevented. However not many in the US would follow the Israeli lead.

**bowlinggreen** · June 20th, 2018, 05:28 PM

^ In the not-so-long ago old days, people were toting around revolvers, which have a heavy trigger pull if you want to squeeze one off quick.

Nowadays with all the fancy stuff people are having more accidents. Most people are all shaky and excited when they have to use a gun in a bad situation, and they try flicking off a safety catch with their finger jittering on the trigger, and sometimes, BOOM!

Some of the new "modern" pistols seem to be somewhat dangerous to me as well. Years ago, I handled a friend's Glock pistol, which has some sort of special light trigger, apparently the gun is half cocked all the time by design, and that seemed quite unsafe to me. Such guns are a recipe for accidental discharges. Even happens with cops:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...508-story.html

Another case of people, and even entire police departments, buying guns they think are "cool" and then the inevitable happens, and no one stops to wonder why.

**Rogerbh** · June 20th, 2018, 06:20 PM

It takes a fraction of a second to rack a slide back. Why people insist on keeping a loaded chamber is beyond me. The Israeli carry is so superior in terms of safety, it should be mandated by police departments.

**Mal Hombre** · June 20th, 2018, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Another problem in the US is that people with minimal training think they need to carry their pistols in "Condition 1" - That is the Jeff Cooper approved carry of a pistol (a mythic figure to many in the gun community) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper Unfortunately, a loaded pistol with or without the safety on seems to be in the news frequently for ADs (accidental discharges). http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...t-or-accident/

What's known as "Cocked and Locked"

**Dr Pepper** · June 20th, 2018, 09:01 PM

In my military service (NZ army)-and I suspect just about every other competent army the (small arms) weapon handling drills are hammered in to you right from the start-and are based on safety safety safety. On the range the following is typical:

The command 'LOAD' means simply ' fully insert a loaded magazine into the weapon so that it locks in place' 'place a belt of machine gun ammunition in the feed tray and push it into place till the feed pawls lock it in place and lower the cover' NOTHING MORE

On the command 'ACTION' operate the cocking handle/slide etc and chamber a round, apply the safety catch to 'safe' NOTHING MORE

On the command 'INSTANT' move the safety catch to the 'fire' position and take a sight picture, await the FIRE command. NOTHING MORE

The actual fire command wills vary-but may indicate the range, target type, type of fire etc.

People who breach the rules are charged under mil law-the most common being 'unauthorised discharge' ie firing before a fire command is given, or after the command 'stop' 'cease fire' etc-and it doesn't matter whether it was live or blank.....

Both Israel and Switzerland are notable for the number of weapons in civilian hands-neither has great issues with firearms accidents-and I would suggest that rigorous firearm handling training has much to do with it.

June 20th, 2018, 05:28 PM	#447
bowlinggreen Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 4,192 Thanks: 48,676 Thanked 49,166 Times in 4,188 Posts	^ In the not-so-long ago old days, people were toting around revolvers, which have a heavy trigger pull if you want to squeeze one off quick. Nowadays with all the fancy stuff people are having more accidents. Most people are all shaky and excited when they have to use a gun in a bad situation, and they try flicking off a safety catch with their finger jittering on the trigger, and sometimes, BOOM! Some of the new "modern" pistols seem to be somewhat dangerous to me as well. Years ago, I handled a friend's Glock pistol, which has some sort of special light trigger, apparently the gun is half cocked all the time by design, and that seemed quite unsafe to me. Such guns are a recipe for accidental discharges. Even happens with cops: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...508-story.html Another case of people, and even entire police departments, buying guns they think are "cool" and then the inevitable happens, and no one stops to wonder why. __________________ So much porn, so little time...

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

June 18th, 2018, 04:22 PM	#441
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,175 Times in 10,749 Posts	Here is one of the better results of a shooting in the US. Three separate armed citizens confront an armed criminal after he shot two people. One shot, one dead perp, doesn't make the mass shooting articles under any of the various definitions. Too bad they all don't end like this. http://q13fox.com/2018/06/17/shootin...t-in-tumwater/ Glad to see Tumwater Washington isn't as snowflakish as most of the West Coast.

June 20th, 2018, 02:51 AM	#444
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,175 Times in 10,749 Posts	Stats are seriously inflated too - CNN includes pellet gun discharges in its stats for school shootings. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...riously-flawed

June 20th, 2018, 05:04 PM	#446
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,175 Times in 10,749 Posts	Another problem in the US is that people with minimal training think they need to carry their pistols in "Condition 1" - That is the Jeff Cooper approved carry of a pistol (a mythic figure to many in the gun community) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper Unfortunately, a loaded pistol with or without the safety on seems to be in the news frequently for ADs (accidental discharges). http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...t-or-accident/ The Israeli approved carry method would be called Condition 3 in the US. You have to rack the slide back to load the gun. They seem to use it quite effectively. However, you mention that to a Cooper adherent and you will start a long and pretty worthless argument (in terms of changing minds). An equivalent method with revolvers would be to have the hammer down on an empty cylinder. Too many accidents in the US that could be easily prevented. However not many in the US would follow the Israeli lead.

June 20th, 2018, 06:20 PM	#448
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,175 Times in 10,749 Posts	It takes a fraction of a second to rack a slide back. Why people insist on keeping a loaded chamber is beyond me. The Israeli carry is so superior in terms of safety, it should be mandated by police departments.

June 20th, 2018, 09:01 PM	#450
Dr Pepper Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: NZ Posts: 4,035 Thanks: 70,712 Thanked 40,937 Times in 4,026 Posts	In my military service (NZ army)-and I suspect just about every other competent army the (small arms) weapon handling drills are hammered in to you right from the start-and are based on safety safety safety. On the range the following is typical: The command 'LOAD' means simply ' fully insert a loaded magazine into the weapon so that it locks in place' 'place a belt of machine gun ammunition in the feed tray and push it into place till the feed pawls lock it in place and lower the cover' NOTHING MORE On the command 'ACTION' operate the cocking handle/slide etc and chamber a round, apply the safety catch to 'safe' NOTHING MORE On the command 'INSTANT' move the safety catch to the 'fire' position and take a sight picture, await the FIRE command. NOTHING MORE The actual fire command wills vary-but may indicate the range, target type, type of fire etc. People who breach the rules are charged under mil law-the most common being 'unauthorised discharge' ie firing before a fire command is given, or after the command 'stop' 'cease fire' etc-and it doesn't matter whether it was live or blank..... Both Israel and Switzerland are notable for the number of weapons in civilian hands-neither has great issues with firearms accidents-and I would suggest that rigorous firearm handling training has much to do with it.