Current Politics in the United Kingdom - Page 15

**DB83** · April 24th, 2016, 01:25 PM

And having called the referendum (which he never expected to do since he would not have in a coalition), 'Call Me Dave' is bending the rules to ensure he gets the results he needs (careful choice of words) and also silence the euro-sceptics who have been a thorn in the Conservative side since Maastricht.

So he manges to spend 9 million of our money on a dodgy dossier (we need an independent inquiry about that after 23/6) plus other spurious opinion from HM Treasury. Without the unwelcome intervention from Obama who gives a proverbial shite about the UK as long as the US's interests are protected.

Oh. With the 'machine' the result will hardly be in the interests of the UK. That certainly will be Cameron's legacy just like Heath's signing in the first place without the explicit will of the people.

And in years to come one can expect the mutterings that even more sovereignty has been eroded. And the fault will always be someone else's.

**Wendigo** · April 28th, 2016, 01:49 PM

This should make it clearer
"UK economy 'could be 6% smaller' after EU exit, warns Treasury"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36068892

or not

'Economists for Brexit' back campaign to leave EU
"The group, Economists for Brexit, claim the UK economy would be boosted by 4% outside the EU."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36150191

What is very clear is that no one has the foggiest idea what will actually happen as there are far too many variables to take into account but any change will be a while coming as an OUT majority vote still means we will only gradually withdraw phased in over a couple of years, nothing will happen overnight.

**seany65** · April 29th, 2016, 09:54 PM

I can say what'll happen if we vote out the first time and then the second time after the 2-year 'negotation period':

1)

a) Trade deals with the EU and the USA will take a lot longer than they should,as both sets will want to punish us for leaving.

b) Ecomonic crises will be made to happen.

2) We will be scared into asking the EU to take us back.

3) They will refuse unless we give up the £ and take the 'Euro' and give the european central bank a lot of control over our economy.

4) We will accept it.

5) Foreign govts. will have been given control over Britain by traitors.

Don't believe No 5? Look at what's happened to other EU countries. Remember that greek pm who was elected to resist all the cuts and stuff which the EU tried to impose as conditions for the bail-outs Greece got?

Accepted every single one of the cuts and and more, 'cos the Greeks wanted to stay in the Euro. He's a traiotr to those who elected him and his country.

The whole plotical direction of the EU is to become the Fourth Reich, with all economic, political and eventually military power concentrated in central block, with what are now Countries becoming little more than counties.

**palo5** · May 1st, 2016, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

The referendum was only called because Cameron was scared of UKIP and wanted to avoid Tory voters defecting.In the event,Of course the Conservatives won convincingly and UKIP got nowhere but Call Me Dave (and the rest of Us) are stuck with it.

Must be the only place in the world where you can "win convincingly" with about 30% of the vote

In our elections The Party always got 99%. That's what I call convincing

**haroldeye** · May 1st, 2016, 09:16 PM

Yes but you knew that several months in advance!

Takes the fun out of it.

**Mal Hombre** · May 1st, 2016, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

Must be the only place in the world where you can "win convincingly" with about 30% of the vote

In our elections The Party always got 99%. That's what I call convincing

What happened to the 1% ?

**scoundrel** · May 1st, 2016, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

What happened to the 1% ?

At least in a salt mine you can always get salt.

smartz69 · May 3rd, 2016, 08:29 PM

Unfortunately the EU referendum receives very little press in the states (other than news anchors giddily saying "Brexit" like it somehow makes them seem sophisticated), so... if possible, could someone lay out the basic arguments for staying and for leaving. Or to put it another way: what's at stake either way?
Thanks

**seany65** · May 3rd, 2016, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartz69

Unfortunately the EU referendum receives very little press in the states (other than news anchors giddily saying "Brexit" like it somehow makes them seem sophisticated), so... if possible, could someone lay out the basic arguments for staying and for leaving. Or to put it another way: what's at stake either way?
Thanks

Some of the issues revolve around the question of whether the EU is gaining ever more political control over the indvidual countries or not.

Those who want to leave think it is, and will not stop gaining power until all countries become no more politically powerful than counties are now.

Those who want to stay in say this isn't so, and even if it were true, then we are 'immune' from this trend as we have a 'concession' which exempts us from it.

Given that the EU has stated that it wants ever increasing 'unity', I think that:

1) The EU will become more politically powerful until it becomes a single state.

2) Britain's 'concession'/exemption will be made null and void as the EU will use it's increased power to force Britain (and any other country that's not already in the 'United States of Europe', such as Norway) to become members of it or they will stop trading with us.

Those who want to leave think the EU already has too much economic power and will continue to gain economic power until the countries in it are too economically weak to resist anything the EU wants to do.

Those who want to stay, either don't think this, or don't care if they do expand their economic power.

I reckon at least some of those who want to leave think the EU want to concentrate the military power of the individual countries into it's own hands.

If this has occurred to any of those who want to stay, then they either want this to happen or they don't care.

In the final analysis:

Those who want out, don't want a foreign Govt. to control Britain.

Thiose who want to stay, either want this foriegn control or don't care. Either way they call the out position 'racist'.

**DB83** · May 3rd, 2016, 11:52 PM

^^ Nicely summed up.

This 'special relationship' that Call Me Dave keeps on harking about reminds me of another British PM coming back from a meeting with a German Chancellor clutching a piece of paper. And we all know what followed after that don't we.

April 28th, 2016, 01:49 PM	#142
Wendigo Former Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Blighty Posts: 113,788 Thanks: 259,900 Thanked 1,139,370 Times in 113,909 Posts	This should make it clearer "UK economy 'could be 6% smaller' after EU exit, warns Treasury" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36068892 or not 'Economists for Brexit' back campaign to leave EU "The group, Economists for Brexit, claim the UK economy would be boosted by 4% outside the EU." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36150191 What is very clear is that no one has the foggiest idea what will actually happen as there are far too many variables to take into account but any change will be a while coming as an OUT majority vote still means we will only gradually withdraw phased in over a couple of years, nothing will happen overnight. __________________ RIP Doctor Who To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 23 November 1963 to 25 December 2017, sacrificed on the altar of identity politics. The show is dead to me, but my DVD's live on If you can re-up dead links please consider adding this to your signature. It helps when looking at reports of dead posts. Please PM me re any dead images although it is likely if it is outside Celebs I may no longer have the content

April 29th, 2016, 09:54 PM	#143
seany65 Vintage Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,651 Thanks: 80,415 Thanked 32,732 Times in 3,527 Posts	I can say what'll happen if we vote out the first time and then the second time after the 2-year 'negotation period': 1) a) Trade deals with the EU and the USA will take a lot longer than they should,as both sets will want to punish us for leaving. b) Ecomonic crises will be made to happen. 2) We will be scared into asking the EU to take us back. 3) They will refuse unless we give up the £ and take the 'Euro' and give the european central bank a lot of control over our economy. 4) We will accept it. 5) Foreign govts. will have been given control over Britain by traitors. Don't believe No 5? Look at what's happened to other EU countries. Remember that greek pm who was elected to resist all the cuts and stuff which the EU tried to impose as conditions for the bail-outs Greece got? Accepted every single one of the cuts and and more, 'cos the Greeks wanted to stay in the Euro. He's a traiotr to those who elected him and his country. The whole plotical direction of the EU is to become the Fourth Reich, with all economic, political and eventually military power concentrated in central block, with what are now Countries becoming little more than counties. __________________ <-- That's Emer Kenny and I want to be stuck in her front bottom. Quote from electrofreak : I'd rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned.

April 24th, 2016, 01:25 PM	#141
DB83 Vintage Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,472 Thanks: 1,948 Thanked 12,019 Times in 1,458 Posts	And having called the referendum (which he never expected to do since he would not have in a coalition), 'Call Me Dave' is bending the rules to ensure he gets the results he needs (careful choice of words) and also silence the euro-sceptics who have been a thorn in the Conservative side since Maastricht. So he manges to spend 9 million of our money on a dodgy dossier (we need an independent inquiry about that after 23/6) plus other spurious opinion from HM Treasury. Without the unwelcome intervention from Obama who gives a proverbial shite about the UK as long as the US's interests are protected. Oh. With the 'machine' the result will hardly be in the interests of the UK. That certainly will be Cameron's legacy just like Heath's signing in the first place without the explicit will of the people. And in years to come one can expect the mutterings that even more sovereignty has been eroded. And the fault will always be someone else's.

May 1st, 2016, 09:16 PM	#145
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,716 Thanks: 113,534 Thanked 59,970 Times in 5,708 Posts	Yes but you knew that several months in advance! Takes the fun out of it.

May 3rd, 2016, 08:29 PM	#148
smartz69 Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 47 Thanks: 705 Thanked 408 Times in 46 Posts	Unfortunately the EU referendum receives very little press in the states (other than news anchors giddily saying "Brexit" like it somehow makes them seem sophisticated), so... if possible, could someone lay out the basic arguments for staying and for leaving. Or to put it another way: what's at stake either way? Thanks

May 3rd, 2016, 11:52 PM	#150
DB83 Vintage Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,472 Thanks: 1,948 Thanked 12,019 Times in 1,458 Posts	^^ Nicely summed up. This 'special relationship' that Call Me Dave keeps on harking about reminds me of another British PM coming back from a meeting with a German Chancellor clutching a piece of paper. And we all know what followed after that don't we.