Questions for our American friends - Page 366

redsquirrel · May 19th, 2017, 06:46 AM

What is the general attitude to westerns in the US these days? When I was a kid they often showed them on TV in the UK but they're rarely shown here these days and the genre seems more or less dead.

Obviously those with "Indians" are not exactly politically correct by today's standards but even the outlaw/cattle rustler type were very stereotyped with little originality so maybe they just ran their course.

FotoKollektor · May 19th, 2017, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsquirrel

What is the general attitude to westerns in the US these days? When I was a kid they often showed them on TV in the UK but they're rarely shown here these days and the genre seems more or less dead.

Obviously those with "Indians" are not exactly politically correct by today's standards but even the outlaw/cattle rustler type were very stereotyped with little originality so maybe they just ran their course.

The "classical" western with perfectly good and perfectly evil characters is dead. Something like that would get laughed at. For the "modern" western where the "good" characters are sometimes deeply flawed, look at Unforgiven, Silverado, etc. Recent shows like Longmire and Justified have been described as the modern western.

Check out Longmire if you have access to streaming video for a different take on the North American Indian. Walt Longmire is a sherriff in Wyoming and has great respect for their culture. His choice of sidearms is a Colt Government Model and a Winchester barrel band carbine. He's ok in my book.

redsquirrel · May 19th, 2017, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FotoKollektor

The "classical" western with perfectly good and perfectly evil characters is dead. Something like that would get laughed at. For the "modern" western where the "good" characters are sometimes deeply flawed, look at Unforgiven, Silverado, etc. Recent shows like Longmire and Justified have been described as the modern western.

Check out Longmire if you have access to streaming video for a different take on the North American Indian. Walt Longmire is a sherriff in Wyoming and has great respect for their culture. His choice of sidearms is a Colt Government Model and a Winchester barrel band carbine. He's ok in my book.

Longmire is on TV in the UK on a cable/satellite channel I don't get but it's on DVD so I might buy it. Thanks for the recommendation!

What do Americans think of spaghetti westerns? It must have caused a bit of consternation back in the 60s when a load of Italians working in Spain started messing with such a typically American piece of popular culture.

**Brecht** · May 19th, 2017, 01:13 PM

There were two types of western movies that arose from either a fascination with the Wild West in Europe or a critical examination of American western movies produced in the 1940s and 50s. The first type is the Italian spaghetti western but here, the fascination doesn't equal idealization. Spaghetti westerns were brutally honest in their depiction of the Wild West while the original US westerns were falsifying history and full of racism. But a new type of western emerged in the US itself: the revisionist western. Those were more realistic in their portrayal of the Wild West and critical of many traditional American values associated with the Old West. The westerns directed by Sam Peckinpah were revisionist or anti-westerns and most of them were produced between the mid-60s and mid-70s.

**Mal Hombre** · May 19th, 2017, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FotoKollektor

The "classical" western with perfectly good and perfectly evil characters is dead. Something like that would get laughed at. For the "modern" western where the "good" characters are sometimes deeply flawed, look at Unforgiven, Silverado, etc.

The heroes of Silverado aren't noticeably flawed,They're straight out of a Louis L'Amour novel.Ethan Edwards in the The Searchers or even Lin McAdam in Winchester '73 are far darker characters.

**Puhbear69** · May 19th, 2017, 06:01 PM

Is it usual in the US too (*), that US-demonstrators (US citizens) getting thrashed form foreign secret service personal and the police is watching the scene without intervening ?

So that happens during the visit of the Turkish President Erdogan a few days ago in the US.

(*) It happened in Germany several years ago, while the Shah of Persia Mohammad Reza Pahlavi visited Germany.

**SanteeFats** · May 19th, 2017, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

Is it usual in the US too (*), that US-demonstrators (US citizens) getting thrashed form foreign secret service personal and the police is watching the scene without intervening ?

So that happens during the visit of the Turkish President Erdogan a few days ago in the US.

(*) It happened in Germany several years ago, while the Shah of Persia Mohammad Reza Pahlavi visited Germany.

I don't think so here unless by some chance the furriners have diplomatic immunity and even then I think the police would act to protect their citizens. Well probably not in the sanctuary cities which seem to support every one except US citizens.

**Rogerbh** · May 19th, 2017, 07:17 PM

Strange that the videos don't show who started the fight. Everyone these days seems to be recording such events.

**Puhbear69** · May 19th, 2017, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Strange that the videos don't show who started the fight. Everyone these days seems to be recording such events.

So you think it is usual ????

I'm giving you a help: at the start of the video there was no fight. Than a Turkish Secret Serviceman opened the car and seemed to ask anything. Than he turned around an the fight and the fight with the other serviceman started.

What .... do you think he might have asked for ???

**Rogerbh** · May 19th, 2017, 08:56 PM

The videos I saw showed a protestor with a megaphone being attacked. The other side said he started the fight by taking the megaphone from a pro Erdogan supporter. This is the guy who got kicked in the face by a number of people - I am assuming he was one of the hospitalized people. There are a number of videos of separate actions, some fat guys pushing each other, the woman getting a sleeper hold, the view from Erdogan that doesn't show who is fighting and the guy with the white megaphone being kicked. They all seemed to be trying to scream face to face and waving their arms so no surprise fights broke out.

May 19th, 2017, 06:46 AM	#3651
redsquirrel Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 51 Thanks: 408 Thanked 509 Times in 49 Posts	Westerns What is the general attitude to westerns in the US these days? When I was a kid they often showed them on TV in the UK but they're rarely shown here these days and the genre seems more or less dead. Obviously those with "Indians" are not exactly politically correct by today's standards but even the outlaw/cattle rustler type were very stereotyped with little originality so maybe they just ran their course.

May 19th, 2017, 06:01 PM	#3656
Puhbear69 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,282 Thanks: 11,393 Thanked 48,577 Times in 2,258 Posts	Is it usual in the US too (), that US-demonstrators (US citizens) getting thrashed form foreign secret service personal and the police is watching the scene without intervening ? So that happens during the visit of the Turkish President Erdogan a few days ago in the US. () It happened in Germany several years ago, while the Shah of Persia Mohammad Reza Pahlavi visited Germany. __________________ Don't forget to say To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. to your posters, don't just leech, be a member.

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May 19th, 2017, 01:13 PM	#3654
Brecht Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10,657 Thanks: 180,485 Thanked 188,138 Times in 10,453 Posts	There were two types of western movies that arose from either a fascination with the Wild West in Europe or a critical examination of American western movies produced in the 1940s and 50s. The first type is the Italian spaghetti western but here, the fascination doesn't equal idealization. Spaghetti westerns were brutally honest in their depiction of the Wild West while the original US westerns were falsifying history and full of racism. But a new type of western emerged in the US itself: the revisionist western. Those were more realistic in their portrayal of the Wild West and critical of many traditional American values associated with the Old West. The westerns directed by Sam Peckinpah were revisionist or anti-westerns and most of them were produced between the mid-60s and mid-70s.

May 19th, 2017, 07:17 PM	#3658
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,898 Thanks: 50,508 Thanked 91,147 Times in 10,744 Posts	Strange that the videos don't show who started the fight. Everyone these days seems to be recording such events.

May 19th, 2017, 08:56 PM	#3660
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,898 Thanks: 50,508 Thanked 91,147 Times in 10,744 Posts	The videos I saw showed a protestor with a megaphone being attacked. The other side said he started the fight by taking the megaphone from a pro Erdogan supporter. This is the guy who got kicked in the face by a number of people - I am assuming he was one of the hospitalized people. There are a number of videos of separate actions, some fat guys pushing each other, the woman getting a sleeper hold, the view from Erdogan that doesn't show who is fighting and the guy with the white megaphone being kicked. They all seemed to be trying to scream face to face and waving their arms so no surprise fights broke out.