Tanks!!

[mongo630]

For reasons I have not fully understood, I have been fascinated by British per war light tanks. They were whole inadequate for the job that needed to be done and I am not sure what the High Command was thinking when they sent them to France, but off they went.

Getting to see them in person at Bovington showed me the guts that the men who crewed them had to have when facing the Germans. Plus they are so tiny.

So here is to the Light Tanks!

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by mongo630

For reasons I have not fully understood, I have been fascinated by British per war light tanks. They were whole inadequate for the job that needed to be done and I am not sure what the High Command was thinking when they sent them to France, but off they went.

Getting to see them in person at Bovington showed me the guts that the men who crewed them had to have when facing the Germans. Plus they are so tiny.

So here is to the Light Tanks!

I think the genesis and explanation are complex-but rooted in the understandable desire to keep the tradition of light cavalry-for scouting and flank protection/early warning-at which it excelled up to WW1-coupled with the economic issues of the late 20s and early 30s-light tanks and tankettes were cheap to manufacture-and by no means confined to the British-the Russians, Italians and Japanese all developed vehicles of this class.

In the case of the British, (and to a degree the Italians and Japanese) you also have to throw in the considerations of policing a far flung and at times unruly empire-much of which had poor roading-for which the mobility of light tanks was an asset-and heavy tanks a liability, light tanks being reasonably easy to maintain and service in terms of logistics and workshop requirements.

[sobaka]

Add to the list of tankette developers the Americans and Poles. But some could have a sting, the first tank ace was a polish chap in a tiny little tankette armed with a 37mm.

[mongo630]

And then there are the early war British cruiser tanks. I've read quite a bit on them and of course seen them at Bovington

[dlnhank]

Tank chats #56 : Sherman DD :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8DeIKRmngU




Tank chats #57 : Churchill AVRE :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwCg...ature=youtu.be

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

I think the genesis and explanation are complex-but rooted in the understandable desire to keep the tradition of light cavalry-for scouting and flank protection/early warning-at which it excelled up to WW1

There's an interesting story there-- the conservatism of militaries, and their desire to have something "be like cavalry", whether its "cavalry tanks" or "air cavalry".

That social preference was reinforced by engineering practicalities-- building a heavy tank that actually works reliably and moves over ground is a surprisingly hard problem.

I've always been surprised that armored cars have been so much an afterthought-- they're terrifically useful in low intensity conflict.

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

There's an interesting story there-- the conservatism of militaries, and their desire to have something "be like cavalry", whether its "cavalry tanks" or "air cavalry".

That social preference was reinforced by engineering practicalities-- building a heavy tank that actually works reliably and moves over ground is a surprisingly hard problem.

I've always been surprised that armored cars have been so much an afterthought-- they're terrifically useful in low intensity conflict.

And continue to be so-both historically-the Brits in India and especially the NW frontier used them extensively-and a wide variety of peacekeeping ops. During my stint with UNTSO, the second half was with OGL (Observer Group Lebanon)-we were cosily co dependent on UNIFIL-and they had a light armoured detachment of AML90s-which were at least capable of dealing with the T-54/55s fielded by some of the nuisance groups-though it never came to that. One of the biggest blessings (to us professionals)-is that such groups usually do not have the faintest idea how much regular maintenance AFVs require to remain operational-and tanks are the worst of the lot! So a lot of the heavy equipment that could have caused us serious issues was unusable due to poor or non existent maintenance. Most of the resistance group tanks I encountered were reduced to being roadblocks and/or pillboxes...and if your engine isn't working-then that big old turret has to be traversed by hand.....
The speed of armoured cars is often an overlooked advantage-especially when responding to an incident-and there's nothing quite like the effect of a Cockerill 90mm (or several!)-poking over the brow of the nearest ridge to calm down an unruly populace when AK47s are being waved about...

....and when something like this appears on the scene....

then people really start to pay attention....that's a 120mm main gun, BTW.... [and about as state of the art as you get in the armoured car business these days...]

The Youtube video shows Irish Defence Force AML90s on the range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmSps_YV7o

These were the type of vehicles that formed the armoured QRF at UNIFIL in my time there (painted white of course with big black UN lettering...)

[jokerman]

This is a completely new thread to me. I will enjoy reading all of the previous posts. When I get the opportunity to do so.

[Dr Pepper]

And as an addendum to my post above-a bit of digging on the Net establishes that Centauros [the pic above is the very new (only introduced since 2016) 120mm armed Italian Centauro-II] are currently serving with UNIFIL in South Lebanon-so things have improved considerably equipment-wise since my time in 1999-2000 [of course the 2006 Israel-Lebanon war saw a major reinforcement of UNIFIL in the immediate aftermath-whereas prior to that event it was being drawn down and scaled back-in my day it had a strength of about 6000-so was a Bde(+) size-now I gather it is around the 15,000 mark...]

For those of you less familiar with the technical details though-these things are the land equivalent of a battlecruiser-they are heavily armed, fast and mobile-but very lightly armoured....and so cannot engage in a slogging match with tanks-but providing they get an accurate shot in first-are quite capable of defeating one...even so-the vehicle is 30 tons-so certainly at the heavyweight end of the wheeled AFV range....

[gwhh]

I found out this summer. You can legally own a tank with a working man gun. All you need is the proper federal paperwork and a states (like Nevada) that allows it. Plus, you can buy actually real live HE rounds from the government! With the proper paper work, of course!