Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

'xyzde69', Tony Blair is not an good example in Britain, he is having a bad reputation over there. That's similar to Gerhard Schroeder in Germany, if you are knowing this example better.

He has recalled the Labour into "New Labour" during his period and switched it into a Neo-Liberal direction, a circumstance the new leader of Labour Jeremy Corbyn has to suffer.

Or to put it in simple terms, he's a slime ball.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

About 2 years ago, I watched an ARTE documentary about a German farmer who decided to produce soja instead of meat.
He said that changing the infrastructure was very easy and working with soja far easier than working with cows.
[...]

Smile, grin, grin, grin !

I already know your intentions.

[scoundrel]

I am not very persuaded either by the EU Common Agricultural Policy as now is or by some crackpot laissez faire economic ideology which makes no concession to the strategic importance of agriculture in any nation's economic and social fabric. Some farmers do awfully well out of the CAP, for example people who have large amounts of arable land producing grain crops and whose annual subsidy grants exceed the annual gross earnings of 20 people such as me. Some, particularly dairy and meat farmers have not done so well; I posted before about the demise of the Milk Marketing Board, which I would like to see restored.

There is going to be a period of transition inside Britain as well as between Britain and the EU. The government has already suggested that it would like a policy to subsidise and reward conservation and responsible farming rather than maximising production. They have shown interest in how the Swiss government interacts with the Swiss farming sector. But as I last understood it, nothing is going to change much for British farmers until at least 2022.

[Wendigo]

Here's proof that Blair is a meandering knobhead who is divorced from reality and refuses to accept the British public's vote. I utterly despise the pompous prick.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/80...lken-institute
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/82...-EU-referendum

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by dwrdnrth

You realise your source is the express? I would put as much trust in that as I would the daily mail and that is as much trust as Wikipedia expends.

The Daily Diana was one of many sources I looked at actually but was the only one that did not tell me not to disable my ad blockers and prevent me from reading the full story. That's progress for you.
It does not change the facts though.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by ********

That's exactly what I said! It's done to keep farmers from going bust so that Europe is self sufficient for food!

You confirmed my claim, but you were mislead by the Express article that failed to mention the extremely good reason for them doing it!

Buddy, you have got to learn when you are being bullshitted...

I think it's whenever you make another whining post

I wasn't misled you numpty, any system that can produce 317,853 tons of unwanted sugar is totally unfit for purpose and needs to cease immediately. There is no "good reason" for that ridiculous excess. Get that simple figure into your head, 317,853 tons and it's not just the cost of subsidising that massively excessive production but also the storage and transport costs.

Get over it, stop moaning about Brexit the people have decided and your constant whining will make no difference, just get on with your life FFS

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by ********

So to be absolutely clear, you don't think being self-sufficient for food is important?

If push comes to shove, it's fine that we are dependent on other countries just to feed ourselves?

Er .... so just to be absolutely clear most sensible people will understand there is a world of difference between self sufficiency and obscenely subsidised excess over production, have you got that

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I am not very persuaded either by the EU Common Agricultural Policy as now is or by some crackpot laissez faire economic ideology which makes no concession to the strategic importance of agriculture in any nation's economic and social fabric.

Ah, you were hoping for nuance, then?

The challenge of any policy is that, well, its a policy. Its something that has to be applied to all sorts of circumstances, some which fit it well, some which don't

I completely understand the motivations of the agricultural policy-- there's the value of the historical landscape -- looking at farmland makes people feel good. There's the political heft of the farmers. And there's some redistributional character, moving money from richer metropolises to the country.

And when turned into policy, pretty much any of it has its quirks. The UK's tree planting grants seem like a pleasant enough idea, but there are no doubt plenty of abuses and loopholes that reward too-clever behavior.

Ultimately, with any policy, you have to judge the thing by the whole, not by the abuses. Is the whole of it worth the candle? Can you think of some other policy that would be better? There may well be . . . but if it really is a "Common Agricultural Policy" that applies to tomatoes in Sicily and dairy farms in Denmark, its going to be under the stress that comes with very different circumstances and political cultures.

[haroldeye]

Moko - Pratto the CAP has nothing to do with self sufficiency and everthing to do with keeping the very large French farming community in receipt of generous funds. French inheritance law means that ownership of farms is diluted through generations. That means more mouths to feed and more votes to be won. No French government has agreed to changes in the CAP because they would lose the next election.

The Butter mountains were caused by the EU guaranteeing a fixed price for butter that was far higher than the market rate. Farmewrs produced more butter than was needed and took the profit.

The wine lake was caused by the EU guaranteeing a fixed price for wine regardless of the quality (or drinkability). Wine growers claimed for every barrel including those that would have been poured away. Subsidy was subsidy.

There was in Wales a scheme where flax was produced. Grants were paid and then the flax was dumped.

All of it mindless bureaucratic nonsense.

In the UK we have had our milk production fucked over. We were producing a great deal over our requirement and exporting milk. The Commission took over from the Milk Marketing Board and reduced our 'entitlement to produce' to 80% of our requirement. British milk farmers were not able to make a living and yet we are importing milk from France.

And finally if you had a clue about EU Agricultural subsidies (which you most certainly don't) smaller family farms are having to diversify because the subsidy system is slewed in favour of the larger farmers/landowners. Someone or a Company that owns several thousand acres gets more per acre than a small holder farmer with 300 acres. That's why smaller farmers have to diversify.

[Mal Hombre]

I just removed an unacceptable comment from a post,This thread is becoming increasingly uncivil and I am fast losing patience.The subject of EU subsidies has been done to death,Move on.