What if you lived in Australia?

[effCup]

Originally Posted by turat

Just wish they didn't drive on the wrong side of the road

Some might think it'll prove useful if the world continues its present trend towards a feudal (1% of 1%), more violent society.

Samoa was the latest to switch from driving on the right to driving on the left, perhaps mostly due to changed sources of used cars--prev. was left-hand drives via American Samoa.

[buttsie]

Liberal or labour = broken promises eventually

If election promises had some personal / party accountability other than the threat of losing the next election the promises would be more realistic

All promises to be submitted for full costing by treasury 1 month before the election
then the level of deception in the media would have very little chance



I think the idea that you can screw up over and over and then get another chance to bullshit your way back into office is typical of how democracy is failing.

Labour at State level where they seem to do their worst damage
- State Bank debacles their crowning glory 25 years ago
- just seem to keep delivering Sweet FA when the Libs are ejected


PREMIER Jay Weatherill (South Australia) has conceded Labor will not meet its 2010 election promise to create 100,000 jobs in six years, having achieved just a fraction of the target with 12 months to go.

In the past five years, SA has added just 2700 jobs. Western Australia has created more than 200,000 in the same time. Victoria, which is also battling the end of car manufacturing, boasts over 150,000 new jobs. Tasmania, less than a third of SA’s population, has added 4200.

http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou...a4480028cf009b

[effCup]

Originally Posted by buttsie

Liberal or labour = broken promises eventually

Is it Liberal or Labor, or is it party elected into govt? Is it possible to govern effectively without ever disappointing, or breaking some promises? That's not an argument in favour of cynical duplicity but rather, just recognising how things perhaps inevitably change over time? /shrug/

Originally Posted by buttsie

If election promises had some personal / party accountability other than the threat of losing the next election the promises would be more realistic

Not sure what form those might take. Do you mean costs of failures coming out of politicians' own salaries or party coffers? I think that might just lead to greater corruption.

Originally Posted by buttsie

All promises to be submitted for full costing by treasury 1 month before the election
then the level of deception in the media would have very little chance

Or just get lost in the blizzard of misinfo. Beware of politicising the bureau. In some countries it's no longer their job to do their (professional) job, but rather, to simply not embarrass their minister, e.g. by answering questions on time/accurately.

I wouldn't trust treasury here to be any kind of arbiter come election time given how politicised/ideological they've been in the past/maybe still. We have had some kind of pre-election party costings vetted by treasury but inevitably it's just another squabble over which/whose numbers to count/believe. People seldom vote based on that sort of finely-detailed info. Maybe in Econ. class (theory) of rational actors but that's not how actors in markets/business act, let alone those in politics. Often the numbers change pre-/post election even from the same party/govt., let alone when there's been a switch.

My favourite bureau.-quote was the one about all "lying in unison", I think courtesy of the Dept. of Conservation.

Originally Posted by buttsie

I think the idea that you can screw up over and over and then get another chance to bullshit your way back into office

So you want politics to be different from the "real" world, e.g. finance sector (banking)?

Originally Posted by buttsie

typical of how democracy is failing.

There are other systems: oligarchy, like the USA has. Umm, oligarchy, like Russia has. Umm... maybe a few others?

Sorry, buttsie, my comments are not meant "nastily" as some of the above may seem, but mostly just teasing. I share your distress at the nature of much politics but I'm not sure the answers are readily apparent/attainable.

[jerquer]

Originally Posted by buttsie

typical of how democracy is failing

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (Churchill, from a House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947)

[blondifan]

I would like to see political leaders tested for Intelligence Quota, regardless of which party they belong to.
I know 'the Toninator' had some moments of clarity a long time ago, around the time he opposed 'work choices' under Howard. But that was over seven years ago.

Could he be suffering the delayed effects of his time in the ring?

Feels like I am.

A punch drunk parody of a PM, or a (slightly) cleaned up version of Les Patterson?

I know he's a soft target. All his supporters get upset at the media for printing 'inconvenient truths'.
Shawn McAlleff and other comedians love to parody, often using actual footage of the abbottrocities.
Opposition leader Bill Shorten hopes he'll go full term. afterall how could he lose at the next election.

Odds are he won't though. There will soon be another spill, this time with an alternate leader in mind, or there will be a double dissolution, which will mean the end of the Libs for quite some time, or until Shorten screws up (Shorten's out ) and we begin this parade of uncharismatic 'leedus' (sic) again.

Originally Posted by buttsie

Liberal or labour = broken promises eventually...

... Tasmania, less than a third of SA’s population, has added 4200.

I have an old friend who's probably one of those. Recently he landed a job with a small company.
He works most Saturdays and Sunday's at the regular weekly pay rate.
The company won a state 'safety' award.
One tractor he was given to drive (at night) had no lights (had to use a torch)... and no brakes!!!
Work Choices is alive and well in 'Mania.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by blondifan

Yep!

Is this the beginning of 'the stolen generation' Pt. 2?
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...ginal-children

Having spent time on an aboriginal community -- not a lot of time, mind you-- I can say that the situation to American eyes looks desperate, profoundly alarming, much worse than any Native American reservation I've ever seen.

I know that folks are very down on Abbott, for lots of good reasons, but on aboriginal issues, I think his heart is in the right place. He'd had some personal involvment in Aurukun, if I remember.

What I saw was white administrators and police trying very hard to help a very badly damaged community. Now its fair to note that the white interaction with aboriginals was historically damaging, not to say genocidal.

But "leaving folks to themselves" isn't a decent answer. What is happening to children up North shocks the conscience, and as imperfect as it is, the paternalism of "the Intervention" looks justified.

You can't look at history, no matter how terrible, to justify leaving a child today in a dangerous unfit situation. You can't do anything to help the children of 1940 or 1950; the only question you can answer today is "what will you do for the children of 2015".

[9876543210]

deepsepia,

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Having spent time on an aboriginal community -- not a lot of time, mind you-- I can say that the situation to American eyes looks desperate, profoundly alarming, much worse than any Native American reservation I've ever seen.

Ever spent any time at Pine Ridge in S Dakota? Or any of the other reserves in that state? How about the New Mexico and Arizona reserves? You might change your mind. Pine Ridge keeps going back and forth with some county in Alabama or Mississippi as the poorest place in N America.

You could probably drive through Pine Ridge but, sadly, I couldn't recommend staying without some type of protection. The people there are very good but many are desperate. They have nothing. Sometimes desperate people will do stupid things.

Yes, some reserves are doing pretty good today (if they have gaming) but most aren't. Three of the nations in my state (Wisconsin) are doing pretty good (because of gaming and their relative closeness to large population centers) while others have only improved marginally (a bit too far from those high population centers).

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

deepsepia,

Ever spent any time at Pine Ridge in S Dakota? Or any of the other reserves in that state? How about the New Mexico and Arizona reserves? You might change your mind. Pine Ridge keeps going back and forth with some county in Alabama or Mississippi as the poorest place in N America.

I know the Northwest communities (Oregon, Washington, southern BC) reasonably well, and have been through native communities in Arizona, New Mexico and Oklahoma -- haven't been to South Dakota.

To my eye, Aboriginal communities are worse. Reservations may be the poorest places in the US, but aboriginal communities are another order of desperate. I'm an outsider in both these communities, and my acquaintance with Australia is much more limited, but that's what I saw, anyway . . .

Part of it is that even though you see desperate reservations-- you see things that really work too. The Navajo in Four Corners, the Yakima in my neck of the woods -- these are functional, self governing, in some cases making a lot of money (not from gambling, from natural resources).

Years ago, I dealt with the Alaskan native american corporation, Nana -- there is nothing in the aboriginal world remotely like it. They make a lot of money, they're good at what they do, and they own their own stuff. You've got native American doctors, lawyers, professionals, people with power, very hard to find Aboriginals with that kind of success.

Aboriginal Australians were stone age hunter gatherers on contact; Native Americans were much more like Maoris, pre-industrial, but politically and technologically sophisticated.

While you can certainly point to devastated Maori and Native American communities, you can point to things that work, too.

With aboriginal Australia, its very hard to find an aboriginal community that isn't just depressing as hell, where some well meaning whitefellas run things, and folks die unbelievably young.

Health stats give some indication of the difference -- aboriginal australians & Torres Straight Islanders have a life expectancy that's a full decade shorter than white Australians. Native Americans have a life expectancy that's five years less than the rest of the US.

Now a five year discrepancy ain't good-- but its better than a ten year discrepancy.

[effCup]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Health stats give some indication of the difference

~7.3 for Maori. Gap narrowing since mid-1990s. There's also a recognised systemic bias in how Maori are treated by the health system--i.e. badly.

Some historical context.

Russian males for comparison.

Hmm, but I need to keep this on topic so... umm... does Australia make its own vodka? Interesting, made from grapes not spuds? I suppose vodka can probably be made from almost anything.

edit: Speaking of which, Oregonians make beer from sewage. What does fourex stand for, again? Weak peas?

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by blondifan

I would like to see political leaders tested for Intelligence Quota,

Mate, won't happen in our lifetime