Things Noticeable this week

[bloke57]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

Why should she resign when the root cause of the policy has been shown to be caused by the Labour Government destroying the records, which has caused the problem in the first place?

There should be no debate, no argument...

I agree with you - no debate - sort it.

But I do think it is wrong to blame Labour. The records were destroyed, true - but that predated the changes in the law that made it necessary to keep them. They could not have foreseen that the coalition would bring in such an aggressive anti-immigration campaign and do it so ineptly.

I have first hand experience of this. The Civil Service at that time were determined to close local offices, reduce storage and chuck out all the paper files. I had to fight really hard to keep my records as I pointed out that some of my cases went back over 100 years and some arcane point of law was bound to arise. I won but, needless to say, I heard that after I took severance my archive was destroyed - much to the chagrin of my ex-colleagues.

A more systemic issue is that most old-school Civil Servants like me knew stuff! Sorry to say that the younger, cheaper, less-experienced office holders know very little - everything (including brain power) has been downgraded to a tick box sheet. I bet most would not even know what the term "Windrush Generation" refers to, as they know no history.

I'd like to think that if I'd been in that department I'd have said to myself and colleagues "Hold on! big problem here. Do nothing more till I've informed the minister" After all, I did once have the great privilege of telling David Lidington off for complaining about a piece of legislation...which he had just voted for in the house a few months before. To be fair he did apologise!

[CARLTON BROWN]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

Why should she resign when the root cause of the policy has been shown to be caused by the Labour Government destroying the records, which has caused the problem in the first place?

There should be no debate, no argument, the Windrush generation should automatically be given full rights of citizenship, they have been here sixty years, and in the main have done nothing but work hard, build a life and contribute to our society. At least they are trying to sort out yet another Blair regime mess!

I'd personally welcome her resignation, because she's an obnoxious uncaring excuse for a politican, although I rather fear that someone equally bad would replace her.

As for Windrush, this is a total disgrace and the way these people have been treated is nothing short of scandalous. But it doesn't sound to me like anyone is actually getting off their arse to fix the problem (in a hurry)!

[Greenman]

Put out the, err no wait, string up the erm, no arm yourselves with rotten tomatoes because it has just been announced that Donald Trump is coming to Britain on Friday 13th July, how apt!

[ultimatewarlord]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

Why should she resign when the root cause of the policy has been shown to be caused by the Labour Government destroying the records, which has caused the problem in the first place?

There should be no debate, no argument, the Windrush generation should automatically be given full rights of citizenship, they have been here sixty years, and in the main have done nothing but work hard, build a life and contribute to our society. At least they are trying to sort out yet another Blair regime mess!

Couldn't agree more. When you consider some of the wasters and scroungers we've let in or failed to stop sneaking in over the years. Remember, also that it took a campaign led by Joanna Lumley to allow former Gurkhas to settle here despite repeated attempts by labour to fight it in the courts.

Remember Jack Straw shaking hands with illegals caught sneaking in while threatening heavy fines for lorry drivers?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/726478.stm

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by bloke57

I've had worse. Try having a camera and a pair of scissors up there!

That'll teach you to be careful when you sit down.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

Why should she resign when the root cause of the policy has been shown to be caused by the Labour Government destroying the records, which has caused the problem in the first place?

There should be no debate, no argument, the Windrush generation should automatically be given full rights of citizenship, they have been here sixty years, and in the main have done nothing but work hard, build a life and contribute to our society. At least they are trying to sort out yet another Blair regime mess!

It's not really just Labour or just Tory but the whole way the Civil Service Management/Govt operates. All performance of departments and individuals is judged on bare statistics - short term targets decided by management/ministers regardless of the effect on real individuals' lives or long term consequences.

What happens is that lower management either just fiddle the figures or go for easy targets - here the Windrush immigrants who are not hiding and are easy to find (because they think have done nothing wrong)
A deportation is a deportation just a statistic, a ticked box as Bloke57 says regardless of the carnage that later results. By the time that happens the minister or senior civil servant responsible has usually moved on to a different department, so they don't care.

I don't think that things were any better nearly 25 years ago when I left the civil service, in fact the scenario is extremely familiar to many I remember and made me realise that this is the way it will always operate (which is one of the reasons I left).

[palo5]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

What happens is that lower management ... just fiddle the figures

That's true

In Vietnam the US also wanted to "measure success", so they introduced body-counts. Before long, numbers of dead enemy rose, and minor engagements in a small village could look like the the Battle of the Bulge from the "stats"

In later wars, they learned to fake the other way, so they looked "humanitarian". They still do this today

Manipulation of numbers is overwhelmingly common

[ultimatewarlord]

Did Russian news agencies even report their soldiers deaths in Afghanistan?

You've invented a new game Palo. Let's call it One Degree Of Sniping At The West. Any subject at all and you can turn it into a dig at countries where a reasonable amount of freedom has been exercised for more than 30 years.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by ultimatewarlord

Did Russian news agencies even report their soldiers deaths in Afghanistan?

Not often in USSR at the time. But if you think Western news reports anything at all useful about Afghanistan since 1979, you are probably deluded

Personally, I trust Pakistani reporters more than anyone else. Russians come second. Western news agencies don't figure at all

[Greenman]

Bill Cosby just been found guilty of 3 counts of sexual assault which could be a potential 10 years each in prison.