The new "tolerant" extreme left

[Roubignol]

If you carefully look at the doctrines, there are a lot more similarities between an extreme-right Occidental person and an Islamist one, than an extreme-right Occidental person and an extreme-left Occidental one.

[Faceman675]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Are non-native American, illegal on this continent?
If we follow your point of view, apart native people of their own continent, you all have to come back in the country of your roots.
Isn't it?

The problem with your point is you only go back far enough to make your point, attacking my point. You refer to Native Americans but are they? Most anthropologists believe "Native Americans" migrated from Eurasia via the Bering Straits. That kinda blows your point up, but hey don't let that stand in the way of a perfectly good piece of sophistry.

If we are to take your point to it's illogical conclusion the only people who have any claim to a sovereign nation would be a few natives of a small region in Africa (cradle of life). Other than that small population we are a planet of illegals by your standard. All 7 billion of us are illegal by your standard.

While xyde69 gives us a history lesson.....Meanwhile in the year 2017 the United States is a Sovereign Nation with the right to control it's borders and to set it's own immigration policy.

[Faceman675]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

If you carefully look at the doctrines, there are a lot more similarities between an extreme-right Occidental person and an Islamist one, than an extreme-right Occidental person and an extreme-left Occidental one.

In what way?

[sandhunter]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

Your lost friend used to be somewhat left wing,Railing against the "Bushies", Until He fell under the spell of The Donald...

First off not a friend but comrad in fight for freedom in our struggle human rights
I voted for Bill Clinton twice and if he could of ran again , I always hated Hilary and when she ran for the Senate in NY I was glad it wasn't in my state , when GWB was elected I thought the world was going to end , but somewhere in his first term things changed and by the end of 8 years I supported him , so I understand his change .
So I'm somewhere in the middle , if a woman wants to have an abortion that is her right , I would like to see a healthcare system like in Britain in the U.S. but better , I don't believe in global warming , some of the power replacements are just as bad nuclear or coal powered powered power plants ,like wind power which kills so many birds and solar which is getting better but is not quite there yet , but if you say this out loud the left shouts you down like you are a lunatic .
If you talk about illegal aliens then they call you a racist , but you are not a racist as you like the laws that are on the books , if they want to change the laws they could run for office and do it that way , the problem is middle America doesn't agree with them and that is why they (the left) try to shout middle America down and calling them racist , but they are not .

Just livin' the dream in middle America

[Faceman675]

Originally Posted by Brecht

There are many idiots on the left as well who use similar methods to silence people. I'm aware of that and dealt with such people in the past. For instance, since when is criticism of religion, in this case Islam, racist? If you are a socialist in the actual sense and if you claim to defend the values of progress, secularism, emantipation or women's rights, how can you have a positive opinion of Islam? I can't and I don't. Islam is a cult from the Early Middle Ages. It's a product of its time and cannot be modernized or reformed, otherwise it won't be Islam. It's a reactionary cult that can only be tolerated as long as it's confined in mosques and its followers' own homes just like Christianity was banned from the public arena with the separation of church and state. But Muslims are concrete people who can think reasonably and who can change their views and beliefs like everyone else.

Wide sections of the left have been infected with the plague of identity politics. They ignore the basic leftist question, the social question. Many of them, usually college kids with a middle class background, think that questions of race and sexuality are separate issues that shouldn't be asked in the context of the wide social and economic reality. I get upset myself when I see those college feminists who are basically liberals who have only little in common with working class people who think it's more important to be able to feed your family than public toilets for transgender people.

Couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by diamelsx

Well, knowing how bigots like to code their messages in order to veil their actual intent. It is very easy for people to mistake actual criticism for a racist attack.

Yeah this divide loomed large in the last election.

The whole notion of codes and dog whistles is nothing more than a liberal attempt to silence views they don't agree with by labeling them racist. It is usually used to counter points when liberals have no facts to back their side of the argument. The definition of a racist, a conservative winning an argument with a liberal.

[ultimatewarlord]

When people protest against illegal immigration they protest against the illegal part. When the lefties see this they don't take in the word illegal and focus on the word immigration, therefore proclaiming racism.

[Faceman675]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

I will agree that most initially came for economic opportunities about a decade ago if not longer, but conditions being what they are is now helping them keep them here.

I am not sure of your point. If you are claiming that economics was the primary reason 10 years ago but today the primary reason illegals are coming to the US is violence in their homeland you are wrong. Economics is now and will always be the leading reason for immigration to the US both legal and illegal.

Originally Posted by diamelsx

How long does that process take? And what if they reject your claim? You going to just reapply and wait? They just set a record for homicides in May. You really think I going to worry about a law about some imaginary line when me and family's life is on the line? Man please...

So you believe in no borders. "Some imaginary line?" Really? Maybe in the 1800s but in 2017 we know exactly where the border is and soon there will be a big beautiful wall so disbelievers in borders will know exactly where it is too.

As for those few who actually come here "dodging bullets" they may have a more sympathetic reason for breaking our immigration laws than the vast, vast VAST majority who come here for economic reasons but they are still BREAKING THE LAW!!! I frankly don't care why they came. If the first thing they do upon entry to the United States is to break our laws they should be forcibly removed, deported.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Faceman675

If we are to take your point to it's illogical conclusion the only people who have any claim to a sovereign nation would be a few natives of a small region in Africa (cradle of life). Other than that small population we are a planet of illegals by your standard. All 7 billion of us are illegal by your standard.

Not at all. Don't you adapt your philosophy, when it's convenient to you?

Logically it's first arrived, first served. If there were no humans on a area, when they arrived, this free land was theirs.
If we want to be honest, American continent was not the land of our European ancesters. That's all.

I understand that you can't agree with this point of view. Because that must say that our ancesters were thieves... and that's not very bright. But it was the fact.

Anyway, now what was done, is done.
But if actually there are people who must understand immigration, that would be grandchildren of white European immigrants, who consider themselves as real American people.

I'm glad to see that the majority of the American people remember what really happened and are ready to open their borders. I'm only disappointed by the opposants, who are grandchildren of invaders... oh sorry, immigrants.

Originally Posted by Faceman675

In what way?

- Inequality of classes,

- Inequality between genders (I was on supremacist websites, I saw supremacist videos, women are considered to be under the control of their husbands. Women are not really free. Even worse... I read that a raped woman has orgasms during the rape. I read that free women were one of the main reason, why our "white Occidental" culture was declining.)

- Sexual discrimination against transgenders, homosexuals and other non heterosexual people.

- Religion (Integrist christianity instead of Islam)

- Inequality of treatment between races.

- contempt for other species.


In fact extreme-right Occidental people are exactly the same as the fanatics Islamists.
What are the main differences? Islamists are a little bit more believers in their doctrine. Maybe because they are less educated.
More you get a good education based on sciences and general knowledges, less you believe in a radical religion.
And they don't really believe in the same way in their similar God.

.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by sandhunter

First off not a friend but comrad in fight for freedom in our struggle human rights
I voted for Bill Clinton twice and if he could of ran again , I always hated Hilary and when she ran for the Senate in NY I was glad it wasn't in my state , when GWB was elected I thought the world was going to end , but somewhere in his first term things changed and by the end of 8 years I supported him , so I understand his change .
So I'm somewhere in the middle , if a woman wants to have an abortion that is her right , I would like to see a healthcare system like in Britain in the U.S. but better , I don't believe in global warming , some of the power replacements are just as bad nuclear or coal powered powered power plants ,like wind power which kills so many birds and solar which is getting better but is not quite there yet , but if you say this out loud the left shouts you down like you are a lunatic .
If you talk about illegal aliens then they call you a racist , but you are not a racist as you like the laws that are on the books , if they want to change the laws they could run for office and do it that way , the problem is middle America doesn't agree with them and that is why they (the left) try to shout middle America down and calling them racist , but they are not .

Just livin' the dream in middle America

You are not an extreme-right fanatic.
But you maybe don't see the global warming, because you are a man who likes to live in the desert.

In fact... there are several ways to be afraid in our future, because we are informed everyday by a lot of bad news.

- Environmental problems (global warming, overpopulation, massive pollution, destruction of ecosystems)
- Unemployement
- Terrorism

Honestly speaking, it seems to me that our most dangerous enemies are not the fanatical muslims (Terrorism is peanuts). Only a few of them get the bollocks to commit suicide.
Our most dangerous enemies are the greedy people (in which we can included 90% of the politicians that people vote), who run our life.

It seems to me that our Occidental countries are commiting their own suicide.
We suffer of a lack of spirituality, ethics.
Less... is more.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by Faceman675

The whole notion of codes and dog whistles is nothing more than a liberal attempt to silence views they don't agree with by labeling them racist. It is usually used to counter points when liberals have no facts to back their side of the argument. The definition of a racist, a conservative winning an argument with a liberal.

I guess I never met a racist in my life. It is laughable to say that bigots do not code, everybody else codes. What? You saying bigots are not intelligent enough to try to veil the true intent of their words? They may do a terrible job of doing so but make no mistake coding is definitely a tool at their disposal. Even Bill Clinton was using a dog whistle when he ran in 92'. Your denial just makes me not take you seriously.

Originally Posted by Faceman675

I am not sure of your point. If you are claiming that economics was the primary reason 10 years ago but today the primary reason illegals are coming to the US is violence in their homeland you are wrong. Economics is now and will always be the leading reason for immigration to the US both legal and illegal.

Has not been true since the housing crash. Most who come now are from further south and they just pass through Mexico. Being that these people are fleeing violence we had a hand in it should be our obligation to take these people in.

Originally Posted by Faceman675

So you believe in no borders. "Some imaginary line?" Really? Maybe in the 1800s but in 2017 we know exactly where the border is and soon there will be a big beautiful wall so disbelievers in borders will know exactly where it is too.

All the would do is make smugglers and border patrol rich. And that is if he can get it done.

Originally Posted by Faceman675

As for those few who actually come here "dodging bullets" they may have a more sympathetic reason for breaking our immigration laws than the vast, vast VAST majority who come here for economic reasons but they are still BREAKING THE LAW!!! I frankly don't care why they came. If the first thing they do upon entry to the United States is to break our laws they should be forcibly removed, deported.

Your arguement is a bit dated The undocumented are going through Mexico, not coming from. The US economy has not been that type a magnet for a decade now. Being that these people are fleeing violence that the US has had a hand in we should be letting them in no questions asked. Maybe that will teach us to stop funding and training these groups.