Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

Why do you say she's unpatriotic? I think she is patriotic, because an overwhelming majority of her country -- well over 60% -- voted to remain in the EU. why you want to keep Scotland if they have other ideas

An overwhelming majority of Scottish voters voted for pro UK parties at the recent election - 55% of us voted to remain in the Union in 2014.

Sturgeon is not only unpatriotic, she's undemocratic.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

An overwhelming majority of Scottish voters voted for pro UK parties at the recent election - 55% of us voted to remain in the Union in 2014.

Sturgeon is not only unpatriotic, she's undemocratic.

I thought you said before 'it's only seats that matter'?

In that case unlike the Tories in the UK, she still has an overwhelming mandate in Scotland.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

My answer is that we are a union of nations, forged by shared history and experiences. We have fought and bled together as brothers, all for one and one for all. How many Scots have fought and died to defend Britain, because Scotland is fundamental to Britain as a country? And is Nicola Sturgeon to be allowed to cancel the allegiance for which her ancestors staked everything for tens of generations?

In many perfectly democratic and free societies, the premise of the SNP would be regarded as anti-constitutional and would be forbidden by law; rightly so IMHO. We British have been weak and stupid to allow the SNP to legally exist; we should have arrested and imprisoned its Nazi-sympathiser founders at the beginning, same as we arrested and imprisoned Oswald Moseley, and for the same crime: treason.

In the same way as I feel strongly that President Lincoln was absolutely right to crush the CSA rebellion using brute force, I regard the secessionist dream of Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP as flagrantly disloyal. It is also disloyal to the Scottish people, who have repeatedly voted against it and who are finding that the SNP will never stop demanding another new referendum every time the toilet paper runs out.

[....]

... anti constitutional...? :
And how would you call the DUP, the Tories are nearly copulating with after the last vote ?

I think Mrs Sturgeon has all the right asking for a new votum of the Scottish citizens. Yes, about 55% voted to remain in the UK 2014. But with the Brexit decision in 2016 - no one could predict in 2014 - this remaining of 2014 the "base of transaction" was revoked.

So I resume to that problem the Scottish government has all the right to ask the Scottish voter once more to decide.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

How many Scots have fought and died to defend Britain, because Scotland is fundamental to Britain as a country? And is Nicola Sturgeon to be allowed to cancel the allegiance for which her ancestors staked everything for tens of generations?

Sorry, but I disagree with everything there. "Tens of generations" first -- a generation is 25 years for most people, and Scotland joined England in 1707, which means you've been together for around 12.5 generations. I thought you were good with numbers?

But if you add the number of years Scotland & England have been hostile and even at war with each other -- now that really is "tens of generations". So it looks like Sturgeon remembers her ancestors after all

Btw, since I know you love history, what wars did Scots & English fight that were actually beneficial to Scotland?

In many perfectly democratic and free societies, the premise of the SNP would be regarded as anti-constitutional and would be forbidden by law; rightly so IMHO

Often it is, except you lack a Constitution where issues like that are covered. It's exactly that situation that allows you to screw yourselves with brexit in the first place. And brexit may allow the Scots to screw you again

Who should feel sympathy for you, and for what reason?

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

But the polonium 210 murder disrespected us. That has to be resolved, and bare faced official Russian lying and protecting the man who carried the poison is never going to resolve it

Except you know nothing about the case -- only what your fake-sensation press told you, and you swallowed it

Quite a habit over there -- if anything goes wrong, Russia and Putin did it!! Arrrggh!!

[haroldeye]

Well you do have form Palo. Nope it was those nasty Germans that murdered all those Polish officers at Katyn, etc.

[rosestone]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Well you do have form Palo. Nope it was those nasty Germans that murdered all those Polish officers at Katyn, etc.

To be fair, that was a while ago now.........

[palo5]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Well you do have form Palo. Nope it was those nasty Germans that murdered all those Polish officers at Katyn, etc.

What is the connection to the EU referendum here, please?

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

Except you know nothing about the case -- only what your fake-sensation press told you, and you swallowed it

Quite a habit over there -- if anything goes wrong, Russia and Putin did it!! Arrrggh!!

Do you remember the Greek legend of Theseus and the Minotaur, Palo? If you do, you will no doubt recall the important role of Ariadne's thread.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

Sorry, but I disagree with everything there. "Tens of generations" first -- a generation is 25 years for most people, and Scotland joined England in 1707, which means you've been together for around 12.5 generations. I thought you were good with numbers?

The Act of Union was in 1707 but we have been a union of countries under the same monarch since 1603. I consider 20 years to be a generation, and this means 20 generations and counting.

Originally Posted by palo5

But if you add the number of years Scotland & England have been hostile and even at war with each other -- now that really is "tens of generations". So it looks like Sturgeon remembers her ancestors after all

Fortunately, I don't care what she remembers, so that's alright.

Originally Posted by palo5

Btw, since I know you love history, what wars did Scots & English fight that were actually beneficial to Scotland?

World War Two makes an obvious start (think of it as The Great Patriotic War). Not for what Scotland gained, but for what all of us gained - freedom from fascist oppression. One might consider the Napoleonic Wars also as a project in which Scotland participated and gained. But as a general rule wars are a bad thing and even the winners are also losers.

Originally Posted by palo5

Often it is, except you lack a Constitution where issues like that are covered. It's exactly that situation that allows you to screw yourselves with brexit in the first place. And brexit may allow the Scots to screw you again
Who should feel sympathy for you, and for what reason?

Actually, and I trust you won't take this amiss because I don't mean it in a nasty way, I have never asked for your sympathy, not even once. Life is what it is and we do our best with it.

I decline to agree that Britain has "screwed herself over". I remember when it was going to be simply terrible unless we joined the Euro. As for the Scottish people, they will make their own decisions; I hope they will remain loyal to the Union but should they decide otherwise, I trust they won't let the door hit them on the way out.