Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[LadyLuck]

"My freedom stops where the freedom of others begins."

Nobody disputes the basic concept of that statement. The problem arises in determining where the boundary between the two exists if these freedoms overlap.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

I still don't see where you get the idea that you can dictate lifestyles for people who are overweight, or are at risk for that. Some people are going to get fat. And ALL of us are going to get old. Are you going to start triaging the old people too, to save bucks on elderly care?

I don't know why we finally spent so much time only on fat people when this topic was about to speak about communism.

But I will follow to answer your questions:
Have you ever seen a fat Masaï? I don't believe that there are people who are programmed to be super fat. Ok... 3 kilos too much why not, even 5... but not... 20 or 30 kilos.

If you eat proprely the correct quantity of energy corresponding of what you physically spend, you can't be fat.


You are correct about old people... That's an interesting question. In countries in which health is not a business, Alzeihmer people don't live 5 years too long.

I'm one of this guy who believe that China was right to control its birth rate.
I even would be institutionalize this all around the world, before we put ourselves in such pressures that will surely cause wars.

I'm also one guy who do not agree with therapeutic fury.

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

In case you haven't noticed, people do not exist to serve the state. The state exists to serve the people.

People are the state.
We don't have to let the reins of the state to oligarchs. That's what you do in the USA and even in a lot of Occidental countries.

I'm even to promote the following concept.

If someone want to be a political candidate in any governmental function.
He (or she) would have to do several tests made by psychologists and ethologists to know if this person want to improve the well beings of the citizen and not the well beings of himself and his friends.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

They cost billions to the health insurance and each year we have to pay more primes because of these unhealthy people, like the smokers.
I don't know how works your health insurance in the USA, but in several countries in Europe, everybody has to pay his own insurance and the price of your prime is relied to the costs of the global health system.

Healthy population = low primes to pay each year.
Unhealthy population = high primes to pay each year.

Here in Europe, fat people took money from the wallet of all the healthy citizen.

So I'm sorry, but IMO, the state has to contribute to keep fat people fit and healthy.

Knowing the expenses incurred due to prohibition on the populace whether it be drugs or alcohol I would have to advise against you plan of action. You are just going to send things underground and cost society billions in another way. Plus I do not see the people getting healthier by trying to prohibit things, it just makes the society covet the prohibited thing more, again look at the drug war and the 18th amendment for examples.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

Knowing the expenses incurred due to prohibition on the populace whether it be drugs or alcohol I would have to advise against you plan of action. You are just going to send things underground and cost society billions in another way. Plus I do not see the people getting healthier by trying to prohibit things, it just makes the society covet the prohibited thing more, again look at the drug war and the 18th amendment for examples.

I'm not sure that I'm 100% right. I've got some doubts too.

Like we say in French: "The hell is paved with good attentions."
I don't know if you say this in English.

But I believe that if people can't buy Coca Cola, but sparkling mineral water, if they can't buy super triple cheesy pizza, but a simple pizza with "faux cheese", if they eat tasty fruits instead of Bounty, Twix or Mars, etc...
They can't be overweight.

Then if we find them something to do everyday instead to stay at home in front of the TV drinking 5 beers everyday, they would be happier.

We live in community. That's why I believe in a good communism to share and resolve the problems of life.

[brk549]

Xyzde69,if you were a communist leader you would do away with everything you didn't like?What if your ideas didn't work and there were still fat people?In past history when things didn't go according to plan they solved it with a bullet or rope or some other means.That's why a free society doesn't rely on just a few to make those decisions.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I'm not sure that I'm 100% right. I've got some doubts too.

Like we say in French: "The hell is paved with good attentions."
I don't know if you say this in English.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Originally Posted by xyzde69

But I believe that if people can't buy Coca Cola, but sparkling mineral water, if they can't buy super triple cheesy pizza, but a simple pizza with "faux cheese", if they eat tasty fruits instead of Bounty, Twix or Mars, etc...

A couple of things.

1. sparkling mineral water is out of people's price range while Coke is cheap
2. fruit sugar is too common now and may be the main culprit in the obesity epidemic

Here, look at this video on High Frutose Corn Syrup and realize that they put this stuff in just about everything we eat.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by brk549

Xyzde69,if you were a communist leader you would do away with everything you didn't like?What if your ideas didn't work and there were still fat people?In past history when things didn't go according to plan they solved it with a bullet or rope or some other means.That's why a free society doesn't rely on just a few to make those decisions.

Why to use a bullet? All the products would be analyzed by a scientific and an ethics committee. You believe that I'm a dictator, but I even shouldn't be selected to write the Constitution and the laws. There are people who are far more clever than me to accomplish these difficult tasks.

But it seems to me that our too liberal countries has let the reins to greedy people.

I believe more in a real participative democracy like in Switzerland, than a wobbly democracy like in the USA.
But there are also poor people in Switzerland. That's why I'd prefer a more Social participative democracy.

That means, an executive commitee, a legislative commitee AND an ethics commitee.
If the job of the legislative and the executive commitees fail to pass the exam of the ethics commitee, they must rewrite the law.
The ethics commitee would be constituted by high-level scientists and random selected civilian people of the younger generations.

We don't have to forget that our actions contribute to forge their future and their life.
Maybe the weight of the old generation is too weighty.

Originally Posted by diamelsx

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

A couple of things.

1. sparkling mineral water is out of people's price range while Coke is cheap
2. fruit sugar is too common now and may be the main culprit in the obesity epidemic

Here, look at this video on High Frutose Corn Syrup and realize that they put this stuff in just about everything we eat.

In Europe, sparkling (or pure) mineral water is availabe at 25 cents the liter to 1€ if you buy some labelled water. Coca-Cola costs from 1 to 1.5 € the liter depending the country.

About fructose. That's one more time a pseudo-diet business problem. If you eat an apple or a banana, you need to eat a lot of them to get some diabets. If you drink pure fruit juice, apart the fact that you would drink 2 liters per day, there are few risks to develop the same troubles than if you only drink a Cola.
Now they take the fructose from fruits and artificially add them in other products. That's not really natural. We get problems of concentration and quantity.

So my question is: Must the state control these products before to let them to be sold on the market or... must the state take our money and do absolutely nothing?

With your examples we clearly see that free and uncontroled business is dangerous. Isn't it?

[bowlinggreen]

"My freedom stops where the freedom of others begins."

Nobody disputes the basic concept of that statement. The problem arises in determining where the boundary between the two exists if these freedoms overlap.

Hear, hear.

I don't know why we finally spent so much time only on fat people when this topic was about to speak about communism.

But I will follow to answer your questions:
Have you ever seen a fat Masaï? I don't believe that there are people who are programmed to be super fat. Ok... 3 kilos too much why not, even 5... but not... 20 or 30 kilos.

If you eat proprely the correct quantity of energy corresponding of what you physically spend, you can't be fat.

We have gone OT because you were proposing "food control" as a desirable aspect of communism.

As a final part shot on the subject, I will say that I have seen plenty of fat people of African descent. You find obese people in every race.

You want to make eating for pleasure a crime, or a sin, or whatever. This is not acceptable to free citizens.

And all your committees and panels are not ever going to successfully implement your desired policies, because people will find a way around your laws, even if they must risk prison to do it.

Ask palo5 about black marketeering in Soviet Russia. You think it did not exist?

[Roubignol]

@bowlinggreen... you comment what I write like lawyer who has to defend a bad case.
Where did I write: "Eating for pleasure is a crime, a sin."

I rather wrote: "Selling unhealthy food is a crime, a sin."

If Masaï are fit, it's because they don't eat industrial junk food freely sold on shelves of supermarkets.
The fat African descents you have seen, massively ate unhealthy junk food.

[brk549]

69,all the things you say about committees and delegating and bringing in all these different groups has never happened in a communist state.Usually the number of people pushing the buttons becomes fewer and fewer.Your advocating for a communist state that has never existed.Power corrupts and is evident every time a few have taken control over many.A person only has so much time on earth to see their vision carried out,that's where the bullet comes in trying to speed that up when they see things are not as easy as they thought.