China what do you think?

[Dr Pepper]

I agree-a future clash is inevitable-the only issue is when. I think it likely that the flash point will be the disputed areas in the south china sea-for which about 6 countries have laid claims-many of them better than China's....though it will be very difficult to rank under international law-as most if not all are uninhabited. The usual principle of self determination of the extant population being the primary driver under international law will not apply in most of these cases-and China's ego coupled with the loss of face entailed in any backdown means it is highly unlikely they will relinquish their claims no matter how tenuous, and no matter what the UN or International court of Justice decides.

From a purely NZ perspective, our close economic ties with China (our second largest trading partner-for both imports and exports-after Australia) could see us being forced to choose-in the event of a future conflict-between supporting China's position-or our traditional historical military and political allies, the US and the Commonwealth-which will be a particularly invidious position to be in....for NZ that will be a no-win scenario....

Meantime, whilst the south china sea will almost certainly be the flashpoint, China has been busily cultivating ties with many small pacific island countries, through cultural exchanges, business ventures and aid-quietly making friends and weaning these countries away from their traditional post colonial ties. NZ and Australia (mainly NZ since the SW Pacific is our main area of influence, whereas Australia has strategic interests in the Indian ocean to focus on as well and tends to focus more efforts to its N and NW) have been good global citizens both supporting the fight on terror half a world away-whilst in our own backyards, China has been quietly eroding our influence in the region.

Whilst we fret over Isis and the Middle East its amazing what is going on quietly in unlit corners of the globe when most of the world is looking elsewhere....

[rotobott]

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

Whilst we fret over Isis and the Middle East its amazing what is going on quietly in unlit corners of the globe when most of the world is looking elsewhere....

Slowly, slowly catchee monkey

Still if it goes wrong and the US gets totally undermined, it could be global thermonuclear war, death figures even Palo would be impressed with, if he was still alive.

[AmateurEmale]

Is everyone aware that China still wants to go to the moon by 2030? They are quite capable in space flight. I am concerned that the U.S. will fall behind China in this area, even with the U.S. companies that are doing private space flight.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by shagger

They seem to be doing pretty well, industrialisation shows minimal signs of slowing and they own a sizeable chunk of US debt too (apparently), seem to be doing a lot for international trade too.

Like any economy, just wait till that bubble bursts

Originally Posted by AmateurEmale

Is everyone aware that China still wants to go to the moon by 2030? They are quite capable in space flight. I am concerned that the U.S. will fall behind China in this area, even with the U.S. companies that are doing private space flight.

Didn't they wipe out a few entire villages some years ago with a failed rocket launch





The west ain't been perfect at it, but don't think they've ever cost civilian lives to that extent .

[Wendigo]

I always try and avoid Chinese produce wherever possible as I personally believe they are still a bunch of uncultured barbarians when it comes to what we class as domestic animals. Let alone the trade in endangered species

As regards freedom, the Chinese people are free as a fish in a pond is free - within very strict limits

I'd sooner pay more and buy European or American goods or even Australasian goods and stuff China.

[Mal Hombre]

I think that China has successfully disproved the maxim that Capitalism is synonymous with Democracy.They combine Free markets with an almost complete lack of Freedom...

[SanteeFats]

China's increasing navy size, their aggressive island building, and their threats (?) of total air and sea control in and around those islands is causing the US to redeploy naval assets from the traditional 50/50 between the Atlantic and Pacific to a 60/40 split with the 60% going to the Pacific and concentrated towards the South China Sea.

[Navvet]

Originally Posted by hound dog

What I find interesting in China is the how accelerated the industrialization has happened, with all it's varied aspects; environmental, working conditions, unionization, pensions, etc. Issue's that have taken the west over a hundred years to arrive at and attempt to resolve, China has reached in less than forty or so. I imagine that they will have to deal with out sourcing, factory closures, and the industrial job base relocating to countries that will be cheaper to operate in at a much faster pace as well. Pandora's box has been opened and there will be no going back, be interesting to see how it plays out. Peaceful acceptance on the part of the government or is another Tiananmen Square looming on the horizon?

Environmentally, the Chinese government doesn't seem to care. There are minor laws in place, but their enforcement is left up to local authorities who care much more about profits than they do about the environment, (i.e: Shanghai is one of the most polluted cities on Earth).
From the information I've gleaned through news reports and articles, working conditions in China are extremely substandard. And due to the enormous labor force, safety measures are almost non-existent. Employers know that any worker who leaves (for any reason) can be easily be replaced, due to the over-abundance of available manpower. And because of that enormous labor pool, comparable wages are a pittance of what they are in the west, thus keeping manufacturing costs down. That's why so many other countries buy their products in China, and resell them at a huge markup to their own citizens.

[hound dog]

Originally Posted by navvet

Environmentally, he Chinese government doesn't seem to care. There are minor laws in place, but their enforcement is left up to local authorities who care much more about profits than they do about the environment, (i.e: Shanghai is one of the most polluted cities on Earth).
From the information I've gleaned through news reports and articles, working conditions in China are extremely substandard. And due to the enormous labor force, safety measures are almost non-existent.

I don't argue with you here navvet, but I've also been reading where workers in China are striking and demanding better wages, working conditions, and pensions. Considering the working conditions they have, I only expect for labor discontent to increase; and as it increases, for manufacturers to play the relocation card, and move their operations to countries with cheaper labor and fewer regulations and labor laws. The worker outrage over sub-standard wages and benefits is just beginning in China, and based on how rapidly they got to this point, I'd expect the rapidity to continue as far as worker discontent as well.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

I always try and avoid Chinese produce wherever possible

But I rarely avoid Chinese food





But that's because it's got nothing to do with their Government
Chinese people
Beijing Government

Just being silly, carry on