Tax avoidance . Would you ?

[chris chunt]

The papers this week have been full of the rich and famous and their offshore tax affairs leaked .
But would you join them or have you already ?

Yes I have and yes I would .

The story only becomes interesting when it's Bono from u2 or Gary Linekar ( a UK sportsman turned potato chip magnate ) who pretend they're better than the rest of us moral wise then get caught red handed like this .

As for Lewis Hamilton and his tax fee private jet .
Good on him and could I do that with something like a car ?
Lease it back to myself

Unlike some others he doesn't walk round like he's a saint in the making .
He looked for the most economical way to buy a private jet .
Good on im .

[martynz]

NO!!!!!
The lowest of the low, scum, greedy bastards.

[vif]

By not paying their fair share, these people are depriving children of school spending, and old people of their healthcare. Yet, they expect the lower paid to pay their full share and provide for national defence, roads, water supplies etc. If no one paid tax none of these things could be provided. Why do the rich expect to get them for free?

[galethol]

Have you ever bought a box of cigarettes or a bottle of whisky from duty free? If yes you have indulged in tax avoidance. Using legal means to pay less tax is just that, legal. It's up to the government to change tax law to close the loop holes if they are that concerned.

[Staffsyeoman]

Tax AVOIDANCE is legal! Your personal tax allowance? Your ISA? Your allowance for maintaining a work uniform? Duty free at the airport? All tax avoidance. Where I get steamed is conflating tax AVOIDANCE - legal - with tax EVASION which isn't. Trying to shame us by conflating them. Yes, some take it to extremes and should be dealt with, and the others are just criminals. But beware those who want to crack down on "all" tax avoidance by associating it with a crime. They're coming for your pocket as much as anyone in the Paradise Papers.

[haroldeye]

Tax avoidance is just another way of describing tax planning. Unless one works for the local and national government everyone does it in some form. The big pension funds plan their affairs so they pay only the tax they are legally responsible for.

Oh and have any of the people who object to avoidance ever paid cash to tradesmen in order to lessen the VAT Bill. If so be aware that that is Tax Evasion and is very illegal.

[brk549]

All of the Hollywood types and politicians that come on TV yelping about how we should be more than willing to pay more taxes are the ones that are doing it.

[pierrelm]

Originally Posted by chris chunt

As for Lewis Hamilton and his tax fee private jet . Good on him and could I do that with something like a car ?
Lease it back to myself

Unlike some others he doesn't walk round like he's a saint in the making .
He looked for the most economical way to buy a private jet .
Good on im .

This is where I'd beg to differ - an example of a greedy rich boy ducking his social dues by exploiting a loophole, created by the wealthy for the use of the wealthy to benefit unfairly.

Please let's not kid ourselves - this is about the priviliged looking after themselves at the cost of everyone else. That it is somehow legitimised says a lot about how skewed our moral compass is.

[themidlander]

Tax Avoidance by individuals like benefit fraud are issues that governemnts like us to get hot under the collar about, be they of the left or right. The real issue is that in spite of these things taking place (and individuals/companies will always try and optimise their finances) goverments do nothing to close the looopholes because it is easier to blame the individuals/companies than to try top close the loopholes and run the risk of failing!

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Tax avoidance is just another way of describing tax planning. Unless one works for the local and national government everyone does it in some form. The big pension funds plan their affairs so they pay only the tax they are legally responsible for.

Oh and have any of the people who object to avoidance ever paid cash to tradesmen in order to lessen the VAT Bill. If so be aware that that is Tax Evasion and is very illegal.

There is a spectrum in these things, and to a certain extent tax planning is legitimate and fair; but there does come a stage where it ceases to be legitimate and becomes anti-social and unscrupulous. Ultimately, the reason for all this is that I have to pay my social rent for things like public infrastructure, police and armed services, schools, hospitals, social housing and the various necessities of peaceful and civilised community existence. I am being made to pay; left to myself I would not pay a bean. I am paying in overdrive now for the time I spent not paying when I should have been paying. But I know why I am being made to pay and I have not cried foul. I would prefer not to live in a land without government, such as Somalia.

The same logic must apply to all citizens, rich or poor; they will not pay a bean voluntarily and need to be kept under scrutiny and enforcement. But conversely the state has to play fair and not allow wealthy citizens to use their wealth to avoid equal treatment. HMRC came after me and shook the tree [oh yes they did] so they should pursue Lewis Hamilton and everyone else with equal and impartial zeal. I object to the special fishing net which catches all the little fish and lets the big fish swim away. And yes, I have paid tradesmen in cash many times and if I get a receipt it generally will have no serial number on it. How they manage their own affairs is their own business and I do not ask questions about things which are no business of mine. If they are systematically evading they will be caught one day, that will happen, and no one should fool themselves that they won't eventually come unstuck if they play that game.

What we see in the aggressive and structured tax avoidance is that people who have enough money to choke ten horses and could quite easily pay what they owe are prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to keep the public share of their wealth and also still enjoy all the benefits of living in a civil society without contributing. Lewis Hamilton is a very small example of this type and can at least say that he earned his money legitimately and that he declares and pays his income tax, probably far more tax than I pay and almost certainly far more compliant with the deadlines. There are plenty of others much worse than him, before we even start to look at the likes of Starbucks, Apple and Microsoft.