Questions for our German Friends

[Brecht]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

By the way, I've got a question for my German (and Austrian) friends:

Following the story of Catalunia, what would happen if the Bayern state (or Tyrol state) would like to quit your relative country ?

On what grounds? There is no reason for Tyrol to leave Austria nor has there ever been a movement that would advocate secession. But there is a movement in South Tyrol. Austria lost that territory to Italy after World War I when it was annexed by the Italian army, backed by the Allies in accordance with the Treaty of London from 1915.

There is a movement among the German-speaking population in South Tyrol that wants to return to Austria but it's unlikely that's ever gonna happen. Austria is not interested in "taking it back" nor has it ever been seriously debated in our politics. Nobody cares about South Tyrol.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Brecht

On what grounds?

Purely theoretical.
Would it be possible or not?

[Brecht]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Purely theoretical.
Would it be possible or not?

Perhaps in the case of Bavaria because it's the wealthiest part of Germany. The per capita income in Bavaria is 15% higher than in other German federal states. This kind of gap between the federal states does not exist in Austria. Today's separatism, even when seeking legitimation through cultural or ethnic peculiarities/differences, is basically fueled by economic conflicts of interest.

Austria doesn't have its Catalonia, Lombardy or Flanders. The aforementioned wealth difference between Bavaria and the rest of Germany is not big enough to become a serious internal problem because Germany has a more balanced system of inter-state fiscal adjustment than, say, Spain. Catalonia has to pay more than other Spanish regions and this probably wouldn't be such a big problem if Spain had a less centralized system of financial allocation. How much the regions have to pay and how it's spent and distributed is decided by the central government in Madrid alone.

I do not support this kind of separatism that's basically motivated by the economic egoism of the wealthier regions. But the government in Madrid is not innocent and it's been handling the current crisis very badly. So far, there are no signs that something similar could break out in Germany or Austria. Not even in theory.

[qvc1753]

Originally Posted by Brecht

Perhaps in the case of Bavaria because it's the wealthiest part of Germany. The per capita income in Bavaria is 15% higher than in other German federal states. This kind of gap between the federal states does not exist in Austria. Today's separatism, even when seeking legitimation through cultural or ethnic peculiarities/differences, is basically fueled by economic conflicts of interest.

Austria doesn't have its Catalonia, Lombardy or Flanders. The aforementioned wealth difference between Bavaria and the rest of Germany is not big enough to become a serious internal problem because Germany has a more balanced system of inter-state fiscal adjustment than, say, Spain. Catalonia has to pay more than other Spanish regions and this probably wouldn't be such a big problem if Spain had a less centralized system of financial allocation. How much the regions have to pay and how it's spent and distributed is decided by the central government in Madrid alone.

I do not support this kind of separatism that's basically motivated by the economic egoism of the wealthier regions. But the government in Madrid is not innocent and it's been handling the current crisis very badly. So far, there are no signs that something similar could break out in Germany or Austria. Not even in theory.

The German Constitution has an article allowing the federal government, after a ruling of the constitutional court and with approval of the Bundesrat (2/3 of the representatives of the state) to force the Land (i.e. Bavaria) back to fulfil it s constitutional duties. This is called "Bundeszwang" (Federal Enforcement). Legally Bavaria has no right to secede, as Bavarians do not form a people, but are only part of the german people.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by qvc1753

The German Constitution has an article allowing the federal government, after a ruling of the constitutional court and with approval of the Bundesrat (2/3 of the representatives of the state) to force the Land (i.e. Bavaria) back to fulfil it s constitutional duties. This is called "Bundeszwang" (Federal Enforcement). Legally Bavaria has no right to secede, as Bavarians do not form a people, but are only part of the german people.

The German Constitution, extremely messy as it is after 1990, has no provision for referendums

[Frovo]

^^^
Which makes it very difficult to kick Saxony out or at least completely dissolve it, something that should have been done already in 1815.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Brecht

On what grounds? There is no reason for Tyrol to leave Austria nor has there ever been a movement that would advocate secession. But there is a movement in South Tyrol. Austria lost that territory to Italy after World War I when it was annexed by the Italian army, backed by the Allies in accordance with the Treaty of London from 1915.

There is a movement among the German-speaking population in South Tyrol that wants to return to Austria but it's unlikely that's ever gonna happen. Austria is not interested in "taking it back" nor has it ever been seriously debated in our politics. Nobody cares about South Tyrol.

South Tyrol is the bit of Italy which directly over the Brenner Pass. I found it to be a very attractive place in 2005 when I passed through on the way to Venice on my motorcycle holiday that year. I stayed at a guest house in Bolzano but discovered that my landlady spoke German and I was actually in a place called "Bozen". But she seemed quite content with things exact;y as they were.

[Brecht]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

South Tyrol is the bit of Italy which directly over the Brenner Pass. I found it to be a very attractive place in 2005 when I passed through on the way to Venice on my motorcycle holiday that year. I stayed at a guest house in Bolzano but discovered that my landlady spoke German and I was actually in a place called "Bozen". But she seemed quite content with things exact;y as they were.

I have these friends from South Tyrol. Once at a New Year's party, I said to them "so how are my Italian friends". They were quite offended.

Of course, Bolzano is Bozen to them. But like I said, South Tyrol is no longer an issue except to some hardcore nationalists.

[Motorboater]

What's going on here?

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Motorboater

What's going on here?

It looks like a sports meeting. The girls are wearing Luftwaffe eagle & swastika badges, if it's of interest