Global Warming

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

We benefit today from modern scientific technology and method; but direct scientific observations and records of weather, temperature and seasonal conditions are relatively recent and short lived. We deduce much of what went before from study of tree ring data, antarctic ice core samples, pollen trapped in amber and similar indirect clues. We don't really know just how exceptional current climate conditions are, but we do know they are exceptional. We are in a Warm Period, probably warmer than the medieval warm period which ended about 750 years ago and about as warm as the Roman warm period which ended about 450 AD.

I remember seeing a cross section of one of the giant trees logged off in the Bay Area hills during the 19th century. The tree rings showed that the century and half before it was logged was one of extraordinarily abundant rainfall. Given the persistent droughts and increasingly severe wildfires of this century, that is not good news for California. The battles over fresh water have just begun throughout the world.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

I remember seeing a cross section of one of the giant trees logged off in the Bay Area hills during the 19th century. The tree rings showed that the century and half before it was logged was one of extraordinarily abundant rainfall. Given the persistent droughts and increasingly severe wildfires of this century, that is not good news for California. The battles over fresh water have just begun throughout the world.

Of course, deforestation causes reduction in rainfall.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Of course, deforestation causes reduction in rainfall.

Ehh...


What?

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

Ehh...


What?

He's right. Abundant plant cover traps more moisture in the area, which increases the amount of water vapor in the air available for precipitation when conditions are right for rain. Why do you think rain forests with those giant trees are so wet?

Places in the Middle East that are now desertified once had better climates and good forestation, that all changed when the ancient city builders chopped down all the trees for lumber and fuel.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

He's right. Abundant plant cover traps more moisture in the area, which increases the amount of water vapor in the air available for precipitation when conditions are right for rain. Why do you think rain forests with those giant trees are so wet?

Places in the Middle East that are now desertified once had better climates and good forestation, that all changed when the ancient city builders chopped down all the trees for lumber and fuel.

Didn't know that. Just thought Scoundrel was being cynical.


I do know that trees also protect against flooding after heavy rainfall, as they hold up rain water (part gets stuck (delayed) on the leafs and roots take and hold water, plus make the soil stronger. And provide shadow and coolness in the summer



Our ancestors knew what they were worshipping

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by tsunamiSD

Surprisingly, with the European heat waves, It's been over a year since the last post. For San Diego, this August has been the hottest one on record, and is the second hottest month of all time (just behind September, 1984.) On August 8th and 9th, the Scripps Institute of Oceanography measured all time record water temperatures off their pier. Maybe not coincidentally, on August 8th Maine had their second warmest coastal water temperature in recorded history.

In Switzerland the next generations will probably hardly suffer of summer (and even winter) draughts. Having a lot of glaciers strongly melting, other Central European countries having important rivers taking their source from the alpine glaciers will suffer too.

Switzerland is 2 degrees warmer than in 1864 and could still warm up by 3 to 5 degrees by 2100.

Elena Manaenkova
Deputy Secretary General of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO)
in Geneva.

Swiss climate in XXIth century will be radically different.

Switzerland is called the water tower of Europe. Yet drought strikes, peasants grimace and crops suffer.

Fighting droughts Mega-project to irrigate Switzerland

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Places in the Middle East that are now desertified once had better climates and good forestation, that all changed when the ancient city builders chopped down all the trees for lumber and fuel.

I read that European immigrants have deforested (as our ancesters did in Europe) 80 to 90% of the American primary forests.

I don't know what do we wait to reforest massive areas of the planet with local seeds, that were deforested in the past. That's could be a job like being a computer scientist or a dentist.
I'd be glad to spend a part of what I've to still live on Earth to contribute to that goal.
Countries instead to fight, must send their military soldiers reforesting the areas.

They reforested... Auroville.
So why not reforesting 20 or 30% of Europa, America...

We know what we have to do, but we don't...
Private interests are fighting against general interest. Such a shame.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I read that European immigrants have deforested (as our ancesters did in Europe) 80 to 90% of the American primary forests.

One of the interesting lacunae of imperialism was the Royal Navy's search for big timber for shipbuilding -- masts being a particular problem. Britain and Northern Europe were fairly quickly denuded of the most massive trees . . . North America, Australia and New Zealand served later.

In the Old Testament, you'll read of the "Cedars of Lebanon" -- these were mostly gone in ancient times. A small patch remains.

For the Royal Navy, see:
Forests and Sea Power: the Timber Problem of the Royal Navy, 1652–1862

and

Insatiable Shipyards:
The Impact of the Royal Navy on the World’s Forests, 1200-1850

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I don't know what do we wait to reforest massive areas of the planet with local seeds, that were deforested in the past.

There is surprisingly a lot of reforestation already. Many areas of the Eastern United States which were clearcut and farmed have returned to forest cover. They're second growth, but if you were in, say, Ithaca, New York in 1850, you'd have seen much less forest than you do today.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

There is surprisingly a lot of reforestation already. Many areas of the Eastern United States which were clearcut and farmed have returned to forest cover. They're second growth, but if you were in, say, Ithaca, New York in 1850, you'd have seen much less forest than you do today.

Also a good part of the plains west of the Mississippi is returning to buffalo habitat. It turned out to be only marginal cropland and buffalo yield more meat per acre than cows. Plus they can survive the severe winter blizzards that freeze cows.

Really, whatever animals that are left after we go extinct will do very well without us.

[Roubignol]

1972 Club of Rome report despised by world famous Capitalist "economists" during the 70's until 80's.



Russia has 25 years of oil reserves remaining at their 2017 production rate. (They produced more than they consumed because they sell a lot of their stock abroad).

USA has 7 years of oil reserves remaining at their 2017 consumption rate.

At the 2017 consuming rate, world reserves would be dried up in 40 to 50 years.
That means we probably will face a lot of recessions soon.

We have to rethink work and production, if we don't to face brutal social clashes.

Don't we have to find peaceful solution instead to wait at social crisis ?

[madgoose66]

I am amazed how many people buy into the 'man made global warming' when the studies are there from the last two solar maxes. People use to educate themselves now they seem to say well MSNBC, CNN, BBC, etc... said so, so it must be true. But hey, why believe NASA scientists and how could something like the sun ever affect our planet. After all Al Gore is smarter than all.