Questions For Our Russian Friends

[AmateurEmale]

I would like to start a civil discussion thread about Russia, the country I know not enough about, which Americans were still being taught to fear in the '80s when I grew up, but which has a highly interesting culture and history. I am very happy that our great nations are now at peace since about 1991-92, and that American men have been exposed to all the great things that come from Russia, from vodka and caviar to Ayn Rand and Met-Art models...

Even if you don't agree with Rand's political views, you have to admit that she teaches insecure or "nerdier" men the values of determination, standing up for your beliefs about freedom and/or capitalism if you have them, being forceful and direct about your use of words (which "have an exact meaning!") and having the qualities of Howard Roark or Hank Rearden if you want to be more successful with money and/or women. Only heavy metal and porn are of comparable importance in my mental game...

And so if I were more successful with money and/or women, I would consider traveling to the former Soviet Bloc to learn about the Ukrainian, Georgian, and Muscovite girls who John Lennon must have thought were hot when he was "Back In The USSR". But I don't think the Beatles were good-looking enough to shag a Met-Art girl. But on a good day, with my body in shape, I have been compared to Ashton Kutcher, so maybe I could.

I'd like to hear from any of you guys out there who happen to be Russian, or from the former USSR or Soviet Bloc nations. Do you find that 20+ years after the end of the "Cold War" (1991-92?) that more people in Eastern Europe are comfortable with freedom, free markets, competitive multi-party elections, and civil liberties? Are the girls much more uninhibited than they were years ago? From all the softcore girls I could name right about now, to the arch-feminists of Pussy Riot, younger women in Russia must be strong-minded and better-looking than American women, according to at least one guy who has been to Eastern Europe and returned to describe them.

Please respond to this post at your next convenience.

[Mal Hombre]

And how many would welcome another Tsar ? Apart from Vladimir Putin,Of course....

Yours etc.
Nicholas Romanoff

[cicciobuki]

Are there Russians here? (besides palo5)

[palo5]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

Are there Russians here? (besides palo5)

There are registered posters in Russia, others resident in former USSR Republics, and others resident in eastern Europe. None from the Far East or Central Asia, so far as I know, except for me

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by palo5

There are registered posters in Russia, others resident in former USSR Republics, and others resident in eastern Europe. None from the Far East or Central Asia, so far as I know, except for me

Guess this thread will keep you very busy then


Do you have VEF equivalents in Russia?

[ponky]

Not from USSR, not from Warszawa Block state... is Non-Aligned ex-Yugoslavia area good enough?

Originally Posted by AmateurEmale

Do you find that 20+ years after the end of the "Cold War" (1991-92?) that more people in Eastern Europe are comfortable with freedom, free markets, competitive multi-party elections, and civil liberties?

Sounds like common Westerner illusion, sorry.

To be short - unfulfilled expectations. As most of Yugoslavs in 1990 I was hard against communism; as most of ex-Yugoslavs now I realize the size of my mistake.

I have no illusions that there is any perfect system; also I know that history tell us that switch from one system to another brings deterioration in next 10 years or so, but I'm pretty sure in one: we wasted 25 years.

-

In politics and management old system was more democratic - on pre-1990 elections you can be elected as independent candidate with own beliefs which you could (and usually will) keep and promote in clear boundaries*. Now you - de facto - have to be member of some party and you have to vote solely in accordance with the party's head decision, without any personal influence (because of it now doesn't matter who is minister, some president, or anything else). Basically, on elections we choose one (or consortium of) party-headquarter(s) to be dictator in next 4 years.

* boundaries - there's some topics which was exclusive for education, scientific, artistic, informative and other pure theoretical purposes: race theories, any form of people's inequality theories, any form of slavery theories, matter of capitulation and similar. Practicing of slavery, capitulation, restriction of liberty and inequality was banned by Constitution.

Essentially, everyone could choose or be chosen - from ex-convict to academician (even brother, family of ex king). And friends, children and relatives of previously chosen ones could be academician or convicts as well, 99% based on personal qualities. Percentage today is very different.

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From "little man's" point of view economic situation now is far worse. Earlier you had a secure job in producing average 3-to-5-years-behind-west products, but with more equal quality and accessible to all. Of course, we were jealous sometimes - let's illustrate this in car industry - on Germans because they produce Golf I 4 years before us, or Golf II again some 3 or 4 years before us; there we wanted that our "standard" car become well equipped Golf II as in Germany and not some basic model of it or YU-built variants of BMC's, Renaults or Fiats. Eastern cars we watched with undisguised contempt, cars for pensioners and loosers, or, in best case, for people who build way too big houses so they can't afford something decent. You have only one car which is more than 8-9 years old and you are not a student? Strange. In other hand, typical Yugoslav could only dream about Rolls-Royce, some W123 or 5-er BMW was about maximum for "regular people", bigger cars were only for movie-stars, owners of biggest private companies... work is usually not enough for 7-er or S, you have to be a little lucky.

Sorry, guys from east, but for Yugoslav in that times cheap destination is main association to your countries. We don't underestimate you, we appreciate you as people, we understand that you deserve to live better, we even like you, and that's fact. However, many of us goes to Romania, spent 15 days on coast, spends on everything relentlessly, give tip to everyone - and save money comparing to stay home. Or went to Bulgaria or Hungary just for one evening to dinner in some of their great restaurants will cost you only fuel, bill for entertainment and food is next to nothing. Pastime in Austria or Italy was slightly more expensive than in YU but accessible, specially one in Greece, but with much better nightlife. Again, and to finish with the story of vacation - majority of Yugoslavs spending their standard 15-day summer holidays (of guaranteed 24 work-free days) in Yugoslavia; main part in usual way, in resorts on our coast or mountains, or in social-owned resorts (very cheap or free).

We are not well understood west standard, for us upper or upper-middle class German was western standard. This has opened up too big appetites. Monkey see - monkey do. "Just see full-size b-w TV in 1980s store in UK? Who on the Earth buy this? Strange, we have b-w only as portable or these Russian toys."

It sounds as if we were assholes, I know, but when we go to west and see shine... we believed it is for everyone, as at home. Also, Yugoslavs who worked on west always going home in some good car, with lot of money and pictures of their big houses under construction. Later, regular people realized that they work about everything there, excessively saving and live just for day when they will back in Yugoslavia.

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Culture is more or less same - than and now. Domestic is main, but you have influences both from east and west (maybe little more from west now). Old eastern books, movies... works are recognized as quality ones but sometimes boring, western as superficial ("light fun") and relaxing in general.

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Publishing of pornography in Yugoslavia was legalized in 1974, without limitations for foreign materials, but in reality it was allowed from 1968. Earlier there was some entertainment erotica mags... However, since producing of pornography for money is form of prostitution which is form of slavery, making of scenes like this was banned. Models shooting in Yugoslavia had to be amateurs (and they usually was), even for educational materials. So our mags usually reprinted materials from western ones, and some original foreign porn was normally on sale (mainly German and CCC).

-

Originally Posted by AmateurEmale

Are the girls much more uninhibited than they were years ago?

Yes, they are.

Here girls always were more relaxed than western or eastern ones; hardly any will refuse to let you make her company. However, if you want something more - sex or romantic relationship - things dramatically change. You'll have to invest more effort and time to do something.

[cicciobuki]

I'll always have a special spot in my heart for Yugoslavia.
Went there on holiday as a kid (around 1980) and it was great (though too hot), had the best omelet dish of my life there (!), and drank soda called Pipi (with Pipi Langkous on the bottle, pipi in dutch means pee though). I remember in huge letters "Tito" on the side of a mountain (at that time i had no idea who that was), and Dubrovnik, of course.

And these days my neighbours are (former) Yugoslavians, go figure

Originally Posted by ponky

Culture is more or less same - than and now. Domestic is main, but you have influences both from east and west (maybe little more from west now). Old eastern books, movies... works are recognized as quality ones but sometimes boring, western as superficial ("light fun") and relaxing in general.

There's a lot of underground culture that came from Yugoslavia that reached 'the West'. I think the band Laibach would be the most famous example (as well as Borghesia). But from what i remember Slovenia (but not only them) had a rich alternative comics culture, i'm thinking Stripburek in particular.
Kinda lost track of the scene there though...

Looks like most of my examples are from Slovenia, is that coincidence?

[ponky]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

Looks like most of my examples are from Slovenia, is that coincidence?

"See one - you saw all" doesn't work for ex Yugoslavia, but you can get some picture based on visit of Slovenia. Although, you were in Dubrovnik, so you probably have visited good part of Dalmatia (part of Croatia).

Yup, we love comics. Italian style, BD style, American-british newspaper's style... even less popular USA superheroes is pretty easy to find. The only unusual thing is manga - unlike most countries, we still keep it on last place of interest. But it is important to say that in Yugoslavian area comics are mainstream art (together with not so many areas as I know: Belgium, France, Japan, USA, Spain and Italy).

[AmateurEmale]

@Easterners: Thanks again to all of you who are out there and/or who have responded to this thread so far. I always wondered what you fine people are like, and now I can know.

I have to apologize for the gratuitous music and Randian references, but they are part of my mental game. I believe that Rand, though effective at communicating ideas, sometimes talked in hyperbole; she believed that Soviet citizens "starved while waiting for tractors and electricity... still starved while waiting for space flight and atomic power..." Maybe she was bitter because her family lost everything to Lenin?

I vastly prefer finding out what Russian / Eastern European life is like now, to reading about what it used to be in the days of Marxism. If I had unlimited money, I'd travel there for certain. The cultural attractions of Saint Petersburg and Moscow must be incredible. Maybe you don't have the sex tourism of the Low Countries, but I've learned that there are young people who have "priorities of free speech and free sex", according to Penthouse when I was in high school in the '90s.

Did anyone in Russia ever listen to Korrozia Metalla [check spelling] back in the day?

[AmateurEmale]

@Easterners: And while we're at it, let me tell you about how life in the '10s is different from life in the '80s in the U.S., just so you hear my perspective on how the country was and is. I will give a summary in the style of ponky, the guy above:

Culture is better. There is more racial diversity and gender equality, and more tolerance for LGBT people. Gay marriage and even polygamy is being debated in Congress. Young people are getting to be less arrogant, but also less prudish. Millennials can do things on smartphones and social media that I, a Generation X guy with Macintosh in the early '90s, am astounded by and I'm still not doing these yet.

Economy is worse, almost far worse since Great Recession of '08. Associate technical degrees are not saleable; U.S. companies are either arrogant about bachelor's degree, or have outsourced associate work to India for $5-$6 an hour (about half U.S. wages!) in graphic arts or web design, which I wanted to do in early '00s. Colleges cut aid, and many people don't get the money they need to finish bachelor's degree; I've struggled. On the plus side, the American website eBay (based in California) is still profitable and a source of quick cash for unwanted items. You can sell $300-$3000 in 6 weeks easily.

Politicians are mostly idiots, since Reagan left in '89. Bush Sr. worse than Reagan with economy, but negotiated peaceful end to Cold War '91. Clinton fixed economy. Bush Jr. damaged economy. Obama okay at best, but not good about job creation.

Cars are much better than in 1989. My first car was the '89 Chevrolet Corsica with air conditioning in early '90s, but weird audio system and fuel-inefficient compared to now. Chevrolet Cavalier even better by '04, but discontinued. Mazda 3 from 2011 is my car, but my father makes payments now that he's wealthier; it would cost $25,000 USD new, versus $10-$12 thousand for Corsica in 1989. Much better car, but expensive too. It is light-years ahead of the Yugo, the compact Yugoslavian car advertised for "$3990!" in the 1980s in America. ) But at least you could afford one with a stable job under your more socialistic system. Capitalism produces quality cars, sometimes affordable, but jobs are chaotic these days. ["It's very unstable", said my socialist-leaning professor who was of Polish descent and critical of laissez-faire capitalism like Ayn Rand's ideas.]

So I hope that ponky is not a hardcore Marxist and will appreciate my interest in the people and nations of the former Soviet Bloc. But life is not always great, even in the United States.