Rugby Union - Page 77

**rupertramjet** · March 17th, 2019, 09:01 AM

Two posts after so long! But the reason will become obvious!

The IRB have, it would appear listened to the contributors on here and are now discussing a set up, with six southern and six northern first tier nations, a second and third tier, with promotion between the tiers. FFS! The world of rugby has been screaming for this for years! At bloody last! IF it actually happens that is. The other thing is the number of tests that top players will be expected to play per season. 100 plus caps is almost normal now, in my day fifty was incredible! JPR 55 Gareth Edwards 53, so one wonders how much their bodies can take, and how much the clubs are going to relish losing key players for extended periods?

**pierrelm** · March 17th, 2019, 09:55 AM

What an odd day?
First up, the Italians, who were almost determined to spurn every given opportunity against a thoroughly lacklustre French side who have a few decent players, but hide it well. Frustrating viewing but unsurprising.

Then over to watch Wales in what would be a close fought contest in Cardiff, with an Irish side ready to show that their recent dip in form is temporary and in the rain-swept Principality, make the home nation fight all the way. Well, in theory. As it was, the Irish looked likd they were coached by Mr Jones, Sexton was well nigh appalling and the Wesh played a wonderful kicking game, defended brilliantly and spent 75 minutes looking utterly dominant.

Over to what was going to be a one-sided dominant performance at Twickers. Or not. 35 minutes gone and Farell forgets the basics, flings a pass optimistically and sets the tone for the rest of the debacle. This wasn't a good match, it was positively surreal. And Jones, E. must be thinking of starting all over again as Gatland's thoughts re. England being unable to close games out rang very true. England played magnificently to beat Ireland. They finished a tournament looking like they are back to square one. Whereas the Scots will be disappointed they couldn't clinch a deserved victory.

I wonder what the odds were at halftime for 38 apiece?

**george anson** · March 17th, 2019, 11:44 AM

First off to reply to Jeremy Guscott decrying Italy's participation in the tournament. Rugby is a very technical sport. It took France thirty five years to make any impression in the original Five Nations.

When Italy were in their prime with players like Vaccari, the Cuttita brothers and Alejandro Dominguez they were ignored. It take time to develop a rugby culture more so when there is a lack of school rugby in Italy. But they are progressing with a very youthful team like Zanon of Treviso and they are too strong for the ENC.

World rugby has to be progressive and continue to develop nations because the more competitive everyone becomes the more interest in it globally. It must not become like cricket which has done precious little to attempt any development of the game internationally outside of the Commonwealth (and those teams that are not of that body are nearly always filled by players from the Commonwealth). You have to offer the carrot in order to get teams to improve.

You have to embrace and help otherwise it becomes a parochial sport. Teams need a yardstick of where they need to improve and how to do so and for the most part World Rugby is doing a great job (until this idiotic World League nonsense) of bringing teams from all around the world forward unless their governing bodies are idiots. Canada for example who have turned Canadian rugby backwards and others like Zimbabwe for obvious reasons.

As for the games yesterday I think all of the home unions can be confident of doing well at or even winning the World Cup.

Wales may not play with the style of the seventies but they manage games superbly. England have the depth and players to beat anyone. Ireland may have dipped but they had injuries. And many of the squad are still pretty youthful and this experience will have done them the world of good. And after all what matters this year is peaking at the right time namely in Japan.

Scotland despite a huge injury list performed with credit unearthed some more youngsters with real promise like Skinner and Graham and with a fully fit team will scare any of the SH teams.

I don't think the AB's or Boks or Pumas will be jumping with joy. They know they will be in for an extremely tough fight. The Wallabies. Well they are in disarray unless they decide to bring in their Euro based players en masse.

Scotland did miss out on an amazing comeback. Eddie Jones needs to keep quiet before matches but loss of mental focus can be rectified. It happened only last year in the Rugby Championship where the Pumas were running rampant against Australia 31-7. An injury to Nicolas Sanchez a charge down try (as with the two thrown intercepts yesterday) and the Wallabies emerged 45-34 winners.

**george anson** · March 17th, 2019, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

Two posts after so long! But the reason will become obvious!

The IRB have, it would appear listened to the contributors on here and are now discussing a set up, with six southern and six northern first tier nations, a second and third tier, with promotion between the tiers. FFS! The world of rugby has been screaming for this for years! At bloody last! IF it actually happens that is. The other thing is the number of tests that top players will be expected to play per season. 100 plus caps is almost normal now, in my day fifty was incredible! JPR 55 Gareth Edwards 53, so one wonders how much their bodies can take, and how much the clubs are going to relish losing key players for extended periods?

I still don't like the idea that much. How will regional tournaments be affected for instance and I am not just talking about the Six Nations or Rugby Championship.

No doubt there will be less money for those in tier two and three. Who would want to sponsor these ? Certainly only for less money. Will the old unions agree to relegation ?

It seems to me to enforce segregation. It might well mean the only chance a tier two team gets to play one from tier one is at a World Cup. Hardly useful in trying to improve or understanding where they need to improve. I would rather the Lions were scrapped (controversial enough I know) and those teams in Tier One play more regular Tests against those in Tier Two.

The PI's and Georgia for instance still only get a handful of Tests between World Cups.

And what does it mean for the World Cup ? Does it remain the preeminent pinnacle of rugby or will winning a World League hold the prestige ?

**DB83** · March 17th, 2019, 01:03 PM

Well as I read both Scotland and Ireland, possibly for different reasons, are against this newly proposed format. And if not all the Home Nations are aboard then the format is overboard.

I am more concerned with a proposed 30% investment in the Six Nations by a private equity company. These organisations do not invest for the love of it but to strip out the best assets and make a quick buck.

While the Home Nations may see an instant increase in revenue in the long term it could well be the opposite. Add to that and the investor, to maximise its own revenue, will seek an alternative broadcast arrangment which, as I already inferred, could, probably would, mean that the Six Nations is no longer being broadcast FTA.

**rupertramjet** · March 17th, 2019, 02:07 PM

The idea is to bring both Northern and Southern competitions up to six teams, so Fiji and one other will form the Championship. The second Tier sides would play their championships and thus move up as Champions of there group, of course the old guard will object, it is wholly possible, although unlikely, that Scotland or even England could find themselves relegated, but from this, one would hope, would come a realistic chance to eat at the top table, and secondly the chance to show outcome for investment.

Scotland and Wales are not allowed to have home matches shown on anything but FTA television, a long standing rule laid down in the Broadcasting act, which is why S4C, also shows test matches involving Wales and Pro14 games. hundred per cent agree with DB, they do not invest for fun!

**footstep** · March 18th, 2019, 12:27 PM

Congrats Wales!

**george anson** · June 1st, 2019, 06:25 PM

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...in-super-rugby

This is the reason why union stagnated for so long as the old boys union held the reins of power so firmly. Kearns and Ella have been lambasted by most quite sensibly.

He has conveniently ignored when the Waratahs fielded almost fifteen Wallabies. Even in their match against the Jaguares they had more Test caps and experience. This is because the Jaguares are fielding several juniors from the u20 Pumita squad.

If in due course the Jaguares do become dominant then Argentina can split them up and create another franchise. It is ridiculous that they should be forced to compete in the Americas. Their third string won the Americas title beating the USA for top spot and a Pumas XV beat Colombia in their first international 79-3.

Perhaps Kearns who has made a fool of himself would look at what Argentina are doing in South America creating a franchise tournament based in Brazil, Chile and Uruguay. Sending players to strengthen these teams and a host of coaches into the whole of Latin America to help the development of these sides.

The aim of Super Ruby was to improve Argentina and it should be applauded as a success. It should also be applied to the PI's and hopefully the Sunwolves can get their act together as well.

**george anson** · June 15th, 2019, 03:53 PM

So Super Rugby 2019 has come to the end of the regular season. The Crusaders have been supreme and once again are number one seeds in the playoff quarter finals and will play either the Lions or Stormers.

The Jaguares finished second and face the Highlanders in BA. It's Brumbies versus Chiefs and Hurricanes versus Bulls. The Sunwolves finished a dismal last. While the expansion Jaguares are continuing to develop new talent for the Pumas and some thrilling talent as well the Sunwolves are packed with overseas players rather than Japanese ones. Despite the RWC being in Japan the JRU has a lot of work to do to develop the game at grass roots.

And this entertaining video explains how Canadian rugby has gone backwards although hope does lie with the three new Canadian teams in the professional North American league. Basic coaching and a clear career path is essential.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UlR0m-8Qb8

The u20 RWC being held in Rosario and Santa Fe has given us the four semifinalists.

Argentina will play Australia after thrashing reigning champions France in their pool and a surprise loss to Wales. South Africa after rolling over the Baby Blacks will take on the Junior Wallabies who were pumped by England.

However a one point win over Italy and loss to Ireland means England will face them Wales and New Zealand for the fifth to eighth placings. Scotland, Italy, Georgia and Fiji will battle to avoid relegation.

Georgia showed how far they have come with spirited and measured displays against the Baby Blacks and beating Scotland once again.

One important facet of this tournament is the red card rule for tackles to the neck area unless there are mitigating circumstances. It certainly affected the England Ireland match while France and Argentina both lost a player which cancelled the effect and made for a very open game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tJCKAnMncA

**george anson** · July 6th, 2019, 02:55 PM

So the Crusaders triumph once again for the third row in a year in Christchurch despite the absence of Ryan Crotty.

How they will fare next season when several AB's like Owen Franks move abroad will yet to be seen but they seem to have more than ample replacements. Their record in playoff games now stands at 24 wins in 24 games.

The final score of 19-3 in dewy conditions does not tell the whole story of how a spirited Jaguares side more than competed with them. And not just spirited but extremely talented.

If there were any doubts about the class of some of these players Pablo Matera turned in a MOTM performance with some wonderful offloads, incredible defence, ball carrying and even a kick and chase. Truly one of the best three flankers in the world.

However the game was lost due to the poor kicking of Diaz Bonilla and two try scoring opportunities that were butchered especially the first by Matias Moroni after a wonderful offload by Matera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7buJdsXFFPc

March 17th, 2019, 09:01 AM	#761
rupertramjet R.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cloud cuckoo land Posts: 4,300 Thanks: 26,852 Thanked 54,117 Times in 4,288 Posts	Two posts after so long! But the reason will become obvious! The IRB have, it would appear listened to the contributors on here and are now discussing a set up, with six southern and six northern first tier nations, a second and third tier, with promotion between the tiers. FFS! The world of rugby has been screaming for this for years! At bloody last! IF it actually happens that is. The other thing is the number of tests that top players will be expected to play per season. 100 plus caps is almost normal now, in my day fifty was incredible! JPR 55 Gareth Edwards 53, so one wonders how much their bodies can take, and how much the clubs are going to relish losing key players for extended periods?

March 17th, 2019, 09:55 AM	#762
pierrelm Vintage Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Midst the fen mists Posts: 5,450 Thanks: 55,798 Thanked 72,925 Times in 5,422 Posts	What an odd day? First up, the Italians, who were almost determined to spurn every given opportunity against a thoroughly lacklustre French side who have a few decent players, but hide it well. Frustrating viewing but unsurprising. Then over to watch Wales in what would be a close fought contest in Cardiff, with an Irish side ready to show that their recent dip in form is temporary and in the rain-swept Principality, make the home nation fight all the way. Well, in theory. As it was, the Irish looked likd they were coached by Mr Jones, Sexton was well nigh appalling and the Wesh played a wonderful kicking game, defended brilliantly and spent 75 minutes looking utterly dominant. Over to what was going to be a one-sided dominant performance at Twickers. Or not. 35 minutes gone and Farell forgets the basics, flings a pass optimistically and sets the tone for the rest of the debacle. This wasn't a good match, it was positively surreal. And Jones, E. must be thinking of starting all over again as Gatland's thoughts re. England being unable to close games out rang very true. England played magnificently to beat Ireland. They finished a tournament looking like they are back to square one. Whereas the Scots will be disappointed they couldn't clinch a deserved victory. I wonder what the odds were at halftime for 38 apiece?

March 17th, 2019, 11:44 AM	#763
george anson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Watford Posts: 8,755 Thanks: 21,800 Thanked 293,582 Times in 8,932 Posts	First off to reply to Jeremy Guscott decrying Italy's participation in the tournament. Rugby is a very technical sport. It took France thirty five years to make any impression in the original Five Nations. When Italy were in their prime with players like Vaccari, the Cuttita brothers and Alejandro Dominguez they were ignored. It take time to develop a rugby culture more so when there is a lack of school rugby in Italy. But they are progressing with a very youthful team like Zanon of Treviso and they are too strong for the ENC. World rugby has to be progressive and continue to develop nations because the more competitive everyone becomes the more interest in it globally. It must not become like cricket which has done precious little to attempt any development of the game internationally outside of the Commonwealth (and those teams that are not of that body are nearly always filled by players from the Commonwealth). You have to offer the carrot in order to get teams to improve. You have to embrace and help otherwise it becomes a parochial sport. Teams need a yardstick of where they need to improve and how to do so and for the most part World Rugby is doing a great job (until this idiotic World League nonsense) of bringing teams from all around the world forward unless their governing bodies are idiots. Canada for example who have turned Canadian rugby backwards and others like Zimbabwe for obvious reasons. As for the games yesterday I think all of the home unions can be confident of doing well at or even winning the World Cup. Wales may not play with the style of the seventies but they manage games superbly. England have the depth and players to beat anyone. Ireland may have dipped but they had injuries. And many of the squad are still pretty youthful and this experience will have done them the world of good. And after all what matters this year is peaking at the right time namely in Japan. Scotland despite a huge injury list performed with credit unearthed some more youngsters with real promise like Skinner and Graham and with a fully fit team will scare any of the SH teams. I don't think the AB's or Boks or Pumas will be jumping with joy. They know they will be in for an extremely tough fight. The Wallabies. Well they are in disarray unless they decide to bring in their Euro based players en masse. Scotland did miss out on an amazing comeback. Eddie Jones needs to keep quiet before matches but loss of mental focus can be rectified. It happened only last year in the Rugby Championship where the Pumas were running rampant against Australia 31-7. An injury to Nicolas Sanchez a charge down try (as with the two thrown intercepts yesterday) and the Wallabies emerged 45-34 winners.

March 17th, 2019, 01:03 PM	#765
DB83 Vintage Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,472 Thanks: 1,948 Thanked 12,019 Times in 1,458 Posts	Well as I read both Scotland and Ireland, possibly for different reasons, are against this newly proposed format. And if not all the Home Nations are aboard then the format is overboard. I am more concerned with a proposed 30% investment in the Six Nations by a private equity company. These organisations do not invest for the love of it but to strip out the best assets and make a quick buck. While the Home Nations may see an instant increase in revenue in the long term it could well be the opposite. Add to that and the investor, to maximise its own revenue, will seek an alternative broadcast arrangment which, as I already inferred, could, probably would, mean that the Six Nations is no longer being broadcast FTA.

March 17th, 2019, 02:07 PM	#766
rupertramjet R.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cloud cuckoo land Posts: 4,300 Thanks: 26,852 Thanked 54,117 Times in 4,288 Posts	The idea is to bring both Northern and Southern competitions up to six teams, so Fiji and one other will form the Championship. The second Tier sides would play their championships and thus move up as Champions of there group, of course the old guard will object, it is wholly possible, although unlikely, that Scotland or even England could find themselves relegated, but from this, one would hope, would come a realistic chance to eat at the top table, and secondly the chance to show outcome for investment. Scotland and Wales are not allowed to have home matches shown on anything but FTA television, a long standing rule laid down in the Broadcasting act, which is why S4C, also shows test matches involving Wales and Pro14 games. hundred per cent agree with DB, they do not invest for fun!

March 18th, 2019, 12:27 PM	#767
footstep Lost luggages? Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: France Posts: 7,268 Thanks: 92,097 Thanked 86,801 Times in 7,170 Posts	Congrats Wales!

June 1st, 2019, 06:25 PM	#768
george anson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Watford Posts: 8,755 Thanks: 21,800 Thanked 293,582 Times in 8,932 Posts	https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...in-super-rugby This is the reason why union stagnated for so long as the old boys union held the reins of power so firmly. Kearns and Ella have been lambasted by most quite sensibly. He has conveniently ignored when the Waratahs fielded almost fifteen Wallabies. Even in their match against the Jaguares they had more Test caps and experience. This is because the Jaguares are fielding several juniors from the u20 Pumita squad. If in due course the Jaguares do become dominant then Argentina can split them up and create another franchise. It is ridiculous that they should be forced to compete in the Americas. Their third string won the Americas title beating the USA for top spot and a Pumas XV beat Colombia in their first international 79-3. Perhaps Kearns who has made a fool of himself would look at what Argentina are doing in South America creating a franchise tournament based in Brazil, Chile and Uruguay. Sending players to strengthen these teams and a host of coaches into the whole of Latin America to help the development of these sides. The aim of Super Ruby was to improve Argentina and it should be applauded as a success. It should also be applied to the PI's and hopefully the Sunwolves can get their act together as well.

June 15th, 2019, 03:53 PM	#769
george anson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Watford Posts: 8,755 Thanks: 21,800 Thanked 293,582 Times in 8,932 Posts	So Super Rugby 2019 has come to the end of the regular season. The Crusaders have been supreme and once again are number one seeds in the playoff quarter finals and will play either the Lions or Stormers. The Jaguares finished second and face the Highlanders in BA. It's Brumbies versus Chiefs and Hurricanes versus Bulls. The Sunwolves finished a dismal last. While the expansion Jaguares are continuing to develop new talent for the Pumas and some thrilling talent as well the Sunwolves are packed with overseas players rather than Japanese ones. Despite the RWC being in Japan the JRU has a lot of work to do to develop the game at grass roots. And this entertaining video explains how Canadian rugby has gone backwards although hope does lie with the three new Canadian teams in the professional North American league. Basic coaching and a clear career path is essential. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UlR0m-8Qb8 The u20 RWC being held in Rosario and Santa Fe has given us the four semifinalists. Argentina will play Australia after thrashing reigning champions France in their pool and a surprise loss to Wales. South Africa after rolling over the Baby Blacks will take on the Junior Wallabies who were pumped by England. However a one point win over Italy and loss to Ireland means England will face them Wales and New Zealand for the fifth to eighth placings. Scotland, Italy, Georgia and Fiji will battle to avoid relegation. Georgia showed how far they have come with spirited and measured displays against the Baby Blacks and beating Scotland once again. One important facet of this tournament is the red card rule for tackles to the neck area unless there are mitigating circumstances. It certainly affected the England Ireland match while France and Argentina both lost a player which cancelled the effect and made for a very open game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tJCKAnMncA

July 6th, 2019, 02:55 PM	#770
george anson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Watford Posts: 8,755 Thanks: 21,800 Thanked 293,582 Times in 8,932 Posts	So the Crusaders triumph once again for the third row in a year in Christchurch despite the absence of Ryan Crotty. How they will fare next season when several AB's like Owen Franks move abroad will yet to be seen but they seem to have more than ample replacements. Their record in playoff games now stands at 24 wins in 24 games. The final score of 19-3 in dewy conditions does not tell the whole story of how a spirited Jaguares side more than competed with them. And not just spirited but extremely talented. If there were any doubts about the class of some of these players Pablo Matera turned in a MOTM performance with some wonderful offloads, incredible defence, ball carrying and even a kick and chase. Truly one of the best three flankers in the world. However the game was lost due to the poor kicking of Diaz Bonilla and two try scoring opportunities that were butchered especially the first by Matias Moroni after a wonderful offload by Matera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7buJdsXFFPc