Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Don't you understand that in a lot of Western democracies, elites have written Constitutions that do not represent the interests of their citizens.

Lets say I lived in, Heaven Forbid , a Marxist State and I didn't like or agree with the constitution , written by experts what can I do about it we'll take it one step further and say that 5 million of it's 9 million citizens didn't like it ...... what happens then should it be changed because if it is that's democracy at work which you don't like but of it can't be changed it's a dictatorship which you don't like

Please explain which way you would solve this problem

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Lets say I lived in, Heaven Forbid , a Marxist State and I didn't like or agree with the constitution , written by experts what can I do about it we'll take it one step further and say that 5 million of it's 9 million citizens didn't like it ...... what happens then should it be changed because if it is that's democracy at work which you don't like but of it can't be changed it's a dictatorship which you don't like

Please explain which way you would solve this problem

In case of a democratic state:
Just reread my last answers from the two or three last pages. You will find the solution by yourself.

I give you a hint: revocable.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

In case of a democratic state:
Just reread my last answers from the two or three last pages. You will find the solution by yourself.

I give you a hint: revocable.

Democracy at work then but you have said you don't like a democratic system ...... I'll wait for the twist in your argument, again

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Lets say I lived in, Heaven Forbid , a Marxist State and I didn't like or agree with the constitution , written by experts what can I do about it we'll take it one step further and say that 5 million of it's 9 million citizens didn't like it ...... what happens then should it be changed because if it is that's democracy at work which you don't like but of it can't be changed it's a dictatorship which you don't like

Please explain which way you would solve this problem

I have been reading about the creation on the constitution of the United States and come to realize that it is no accident that the wealthy are firmly in control. Communism sucks, but our corporate oligarchies in the "free world" are not much better. Plus, the oligarchs are in the process of taking away many of the programs meant to soften the cruelty of capitalist exploitation. These programs came into being when there were large communist states and the threat of worker rebellions seemed very real.

However things shake out, the philosophy of Marx and Engels will have an influence. Given that the new system will be created by and for human beings, it will suck in many ways, too.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Democracy at work then but you have said you don't like a democratic system ...... I'll wait for the twist in your argument, again

I just proved , that deepsepia's assertion about Communism = not democratic = tyranny was totally wrong. Since the monarchies, Communism rarely existed (maybe never apart in small "primitive" community on this planet), then the transition state that is called Socialism could be democratic.
The original Soviets were highly democratic and elected people who were revocable.

So let me be more precise.

What proves me that you don't read me, it's I think that the only system that respect freedom is Social-Anarchism. Democracy sucks.

Just look at what happen in the USA today. That's one of the best examples, but not the unique one.
A joking Twitterman wearing fake hairs took the lead of this country, with less votes than his opponent. Democrats who seem to be the majority of the population have to tight their fist in their pocket and eat snakes during 4 years.

That's the same in France. President Macron who only get 18% of the voices at the first tour, now is destroying all the social institutions that were won by the social classes in the past. 82% of the population is runned by a President they didn't vote for during the first tour.

If at least those Presidents were revocable or had to defend their new politics by referendums, it already would be a better story, even if democracy still sucks.

Originally Posted by Brian249x

I have been reading about the creation on the constitution of the United States and come to realize that it is no accident that the wealthy are firmly in control. Communism sucks, but our corporate oligarchies in the "free world" are not much better. Plus, the oligarchs are in the process of taking away many of the programs meant to soften the cruelty of capitalist exploitation. These programs came into being when there were large communist states and the threat of worker rebellions seemed very real.

However things shake out, the philosophy of Marx and Engels will have an influence. Given that the new system will be created by and for human beings, it will suck in many ways, too.

When I read the book of James K. Galbraith, « The Predator State: How Conservatives Abandoned the Free Market and Why Liberals Should Too », I was very interested when he spoke about another theory called "The Theory of the Leisure Class - An Economic Study of Institutions." written by Thorstein Veblen.

Veblen exposed facts that I always suspected.
The leisure class is an unproductive class that became a class of parasites, leading the real productive classes.
The leisure class gives satisfaction to a quite important part of the real productive class in manipulating them and having their support against the weakest part of the productive class.

So that's a social theory more cynical than the Marx' theory.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

it's I think that the only system that respect freedom is Social-Anarchism. Democracy sucks.

I'm the exact opposite, If people cannot accept that a majority has the say then that to me indicates, well to put it mildly, selfishness ...... If the minority can't have their way they will carry on like spoiled kids. much like those protestors a few years back in Occupy Whatever city Left wing lunacy I labeled it.

Social-Anarchism Good, I'll live nest door to you and I'll do whatever the fuck I like and you'll soon see just how much Social-Anarchism actually sucks

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

I have been reading about the creation on the constitution of the United States and come to realize that it is no accident that the wealthy are firmly in control.

No, it isn't. The constitution was largely written by and for landed colonial gentry who were simply tired of paying excessive tithes to a king and his coterie of nobles. They believed they'd be better off on their own, protection from the British Empire notwithstanding.

So much of the power at the top comes from the control of land, the resources on it, and the permissions you need from various authorities to engage in this and that activity. You can't force people into wage slavery if they can pursue their own destiny on a decent parcel of land. Therefore, land must be kept expensive, and those who are not among the gentry but yet own land must be carefully kept in line.

If we'd granted a quarter section of land to each freed black male slave over the age of 21 after the civil war, even if the land was way out in the territories, and given each a horse and mule and plow and some bags of seed and a few other accoutrements, this country would be quite different today. Many urban landscapes would be quite different, and I expect there would be far less blight and crime.

[Wendigo]

So just to get it right after 148 pages I summarise as follows

1. Communism always fails when put into operation as those in high office get to really like power and turn into tyrants.
2. Those failed states were all actually fake Communist states as they are not what Marx used to dream about after a hard day's thinking
3. Capitalism has not been the perfect answer but people do have the ability to better themselves without state interference in every aspect of their lives.
4. Communism now goes by the name of anarcho-Marxism
5. I am fooling myself in thinking that I go to work in a job daily that I applied for so I can afford to buy the things I like, and not sponge off the state. Of course I should know that I am just a Capitalist slave but just don't recognise it


I predict like Nostradamus ... not a riot ... but

Page 248 will be little different to page 148
Not one person will have had a blinding revelation and found the ultimate truth.
XYZ's views will have morphed a few dozen more times as he continues to read dull books and do a series of ideological 3 1/2 twists with pikes.
Mine and Estreeter's views will remain the same but I will have watched countless new films by then and read some really interesting books like this book on Spanish actor Paul Naschy (Jacinto Molina)



Ho hum ............ life goes on

[haroldeye]

Awe inspiring post Wendigo. Profound yet somehow so simple to grasp.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

So just to get it right after 148 pages I summarise as follows

I'll add my little comment after 148 pages I'm even further away from wanting any part of Communism, Socialism, Socio Anarchism, Marxism, Marxist Socialism, and Sadomasochism same thing than I ever was, in fact my complete hatred of it has grown, and I don't use that word hatred lightly.

xyz hasn't worked out that theories work on paper and inside skulls, reality is what counts as an end result.