Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

I thought you said before 'it's only seats that matter'?

Only when it suits my argument - anyway there's no seats in a referendum!!

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

The Act of Union was in 1707 but we have been a union of countries under the same monarch since 1603. I consider 20 years to be a generation, and this means 20 generations

Hehehe! You change the definition of "generation" so you can sneak in and not look wrong by saying "tens". But the time when you were enemies / hostile / at war is still much longer, and that's not something you can hide

Btw, didn't you have rebellions during your "20 generations" as well? I'm told the Scots still have folk songs about it

Didn't you even behead the son of the Scottish King?

Fortunately, I don't care what she remembers, so that's alright.

Well, millions of Scots remember with her, so that's ok too

World War Two makes an obvious start (think of it as The Great Patriotic War). Not for what Scotland gained, but for what all of us gained - freedom from fascist oppression. One might consider the Napoleonic Wars also as a project in which Scotland participated and gained. But as a general rule wars are a bad thing and even the winners are also losers

I know what WW2 is

I know how Scotland suffered in that war -- first time anyone ever brought war to their country aside from the English. In fact, the English were the only people who troubled their country for 1,000 years. Persistently

But I don't think Bonaparte troubled them. You English have Napoleon complexes

Any other wars that benefited Scotland? Since you've invaded, colonized or attacked almost every nation on earth -- there are about 10 exceptions in the whole world -- you'd think there would be something Scotland could be happy about

But that isn't the case. All England wanted was Scotland's impoverished manly soldiers who they could pay cheaply to do awful things in countries Scotland had no connection with

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

All England wanted was Scotland's impoverished manly soldiers who they could pay cheaply to do awful things

Many of them would have been happy to do awful things to benighted savages for free,

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by palo5

What is the connection to the EU referendum here, please?

This was in reply to your assertion that all Brits are really stupid and believe what their Govt says whislt implying that the Russian Govt doesn't lie.

BOLLOCKS mate.

[bloke57]

Originally Posted by palo5

Hehehe!

Since you've invaded, colonized or attacked almost every nation on earth -- there are about 10 exceptions in the whole world -- you'd think there would be something Scotland could be happy about

But that isn't the case. All England wanted was Scotland's impoverished manly soldiers who they could pay cheaply to do awful things in countries Scotland had no connection with

You must be really pissed off by us Englanders. You see us a nation of appalling aggressors throughout the centuries - and yet people still like us and want to come here to live - from all parts of the E.U. and especially those parts of Eastern Europe once under Russian control.

I have worked with Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians and one Latvian. They all universally despise Russia and Russians for the disgusting regimes that were imposed upon them to repress them into being buffer states.

It must be really galling and seem very unfair to you.

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by bloke57

You must be really pissed off by us Englanders. You see us a nation of appalling aggressors throughout the centuries - and yet people still like us and want to come here to live - from all parts of the E.U. and especially those parts of Eastern Europe once under Russian control.

I have worked with Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians and one Latvian. They all universally despise Russia and Russians for the disgusting regimes that were imposed upon them to repress them into being buffer states.

It must be really galling and seem very unfair to you.

And that is from a self declared lefty

[bloke57]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

And that is from a self declared lefty

A liberal lefty - not a totalitarian lefty.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

Many of them would have been happy to do awful things to benighted savages for free,

The 93rd Regiment of Foot [aka Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders]; the 42nd Regiment of Foot [aka The Black Watch] and the 79th Regiment of Foot [Cameron Highlanders], a combined brigade of about 3,000 men tops, drove over 10,000 Russian soldiers off the heights above the River Alma in Crimea on 20th September 1854. In fairness, the Russian soldiers were armed with smooth bore muskets that had an effective maximum accurate range of 300m whereas the Scottish regiments were using the new Minie rifle and could kill at 1,100 metres. But the critical fighting was done with bayonets.

BTW, Palo, the Scottish soldiers marched into the fight wearing kilts and behind their pipers.

March of the Camerons

[scoundrel]

Back on topic:

I have been following the media coverage of "progress" in the Exit negotiation and, though it pains me to admit this, I have to tell the truth. I am not impressed by the performance of the British side so far and I have gained a much improved opinion of Mr Barnier, the leader of the EU side in the talks. I think he has shown admirable patience and good humour in the face of mere ignorant boorishness such as Boris Johnson's totally uncalled for "go whistle" comment. This willingness to rise above pettiness of that sort is putting him and the EU in a stronger bargaining position, whereas the self-indulgent posturing and playing to the lowest common denominator of UK public opinion on the UK negotiating side is placing the UK in a weaker bargaining position.

If nothing else, all of this makes me find peace with the outcome of the UK election. It is very positively a good thing that Mrs May and her Mad Hatter's Tea Party of a cabinet are forced to win non-Tory support for their moves. Left to themselves, they would unquestionably cop attitudes at the negotiating table and then claim success and blame the unreasonable EU because they failed to strike a deal; having not genuinely tried to strike a deal. In fact I can see why "no deal is better than a bad deal" was convenient to Mrs May. It would have saved her from the Michael Goves, Boris Johnsons, and other illiberal reactionaries in her own party throwing their toys out of the pram and complaining that the deal (whatever it turns out to be) betrays the country. No matter what the deal is, some Tories will take the "we are betrayed" line; no-deal would have forestalled this problem and been better for Mrs May.

The Tory Party in general and this Tory government in particular are Freudian symbol-heads. Sadly, they were and are the only political faction in the UK who have unequivocally committed themselves to seeing Brexit through and I attach critical importance to that. I find such decisions hard to make, but once my mind is made up I am pretty implacable about seeing them through. Once this is over, the Tory Party can go rot for all I care.

[haroldeye]

Scoundrel not forgetting the 19th Foot (later to be the Princess of Wale's Own Yorkshire Regiment the Green Howards) who's regimental Museum still display the Russian drums that they captured that day.