Questions For Our Russian Friends

[Nobody1]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

What our Russians friends fail to comprehend, is that the shear scale of the Putin victories, appears ridiculous to us in the west, the popularity ratings fall into the same category, even our most loved TV, music and movie stars would fail to get those kind of ratings, as for a politician! No chance!

With all those other candidates on the ballot, many of them must have got zero votes, if his ratings were in the high fifties, or even low sixties, they would be far more credible.

Palo you do not even live in Russia, if it is so great why?

What our Western friends fail to comprehend, is the simple fact that despite changing Western governments there is no real change in politics. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. That is the Western concept of democracy in its entire essence. It is therefore rather a democracy simulation than a true democracy.

[Mosco Vito]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

What our Western friends fail to comprehend, is the simple fact that despite changing Western governments there is no real change in politics. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. That is the Western concept of democracy in its entire essence. It is therefore rather a democracy simulation than a true democracy.

That is intriguing. For the Russian liberal opposition, the West is the standard of humanism and caring for people. Russian liberals consider the West (especially Switzerland) a Paradise on Earth, which is spoiled only by immigrants from Africa and Asia. The main proof of Western humanism liberals call unemployment benefits, which can be obtained all the life and do not work, doing what you want. Also, Russian liberals like to talk about the need to immigrate to permanent residence in the West.

[bloke57]

Very sad to hear about the disaster at the shopping centre in Kemerovo. 41 of the 64 killed are reported to be children. So sad - and many injured I presume.

We've had a few similar incidents here of fire doors being locked, causing unnecessary deaths. I hope that lessons are learned and that the families can rebuild their lives. My heart goes out to them.

[Mosco Vito]

Originally Posted by bloke57

Very sad to hear about the disaster at the shopping centre in Kemerovo. 41 of the 64 killed are reported to be children. So sad - and many injured I presume.

We've had a few similar incidents here of fire doors being locked, causing unnecessary deaths. I hope that lessons are learned and that the families can rebuild their lives. My heart goes out to them.

Thanks for your condolences. Fiery hell in Kemerovo-one of the most terrible catastrophes of recent years. Unfortunately, this case is not isolated, in Russia there are constant disasters due to the fact that businessmen in pursuit of profit spit on safety rules. For the money, they buy the silence of officials and permitting documents.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

In defense of the USA, I'll just point out that we didn't kill 50,000 zeks building the Transcontinental Railroad, or starve people to death while creating rural electrical co-ops.

Since Chinese laborers were not considered human beings, we usually didn't bother keeping a close count of the number killed in the construction of the transcontinental railroads and other projects in the western United States. There is a touching memorial at a dam in San Leandro, California where the names, ages, and home towns of the unfortunates killed in an accident are listed.

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

Just like in your own country. The terrorism and vigilantism of the Pinkertons and similar death squads is still very well known here in Europe. There were plenty of marauding mercenary gangs of the union busting industry, composed of felons of the worst kind and used by ultra rich factory owners against trade unionists, strikers and their families. Working-class families in dilapidated tent cities, who had hardly any food and lived in dire poverty.

The union busting scum massacred everyone without batting an eyelash, men, women, children and even toddlers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

See? There is absolutely no reason to claim the high ground of superior morality and ethics.

The scale of the communist murder machine dwarfs all the deaths of laborers who died over here building this and that capitalist edifice.

Yes, there were atrocities here, I'll be the first to admit that.

But the actual death count is piddling compared to what Stalin and Mao achieved.

Originally Posted by Nobody1

No. But your ancestors killed millions of real Americans for exactly this purpose.

And how many in Europe have died since pre-Roman times as this tribe and that vied for supremacy over a neighbor, seeking food and land? And while we are on the subject, lets not forget the hordes of hapless natives who were killed by Europeans during the golden age of colonialism in places other than the Americas.

Originally Posted by Nobody1

What our Western friends fail to comprehend, is the simple fact that despite changing Western governments there is no real change in politics. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. That is the Western concept of democracy in its entire essence. It is therefore rather a democracy simulation than a true democracy.

Well, over here, we actually have a constitutional republic, not a democracy. It was founded that way so those who wanted to play at being wealthy landed gentry could do so without having to pay tribute to a king or a queen. It's one of the reasons we fought our Civil War - those plantation owners in the South REALLY didn't want to give up their idyllic lifestyle.

Just because you have elected representatives does not mean you have a true democracy, as anyone with a brain who pays attention to politics and the doings of the elites will soon come to understand.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

But the actual death count is piddling compared to what Stalin and Mao achieved.

Just one question. Now you are First Secretary Bowlingreen. You have to run a country that will share more equally the wealth between people.
But against you, you have to fight counter-revolutionary people who like and defend slavery. Who want to kill you and destroy your political system.
What would you make with them?

Please reply honestly?

Originally Posted by Mosco Vito

That is intriguing. For the Russian liberal opposition, the West is the standard of humanism and caring for people. Russian liberals consider the West (especially Switzerland) a Paradise on Earth, which is spoiled only by immigrants from Africa and Asia. The main proof of Western humanism liberals call unemployment benefits, which can be obtained all the life and do not work, doing what you want. Also, Russian liberals like to talk about the need to immigrate to permanent residence in the West.

The notion of nation is a lie. We, humans, prefer communities in which we feel well instead to live in a country that do not fit to our philosophy.

I'd prefer to get a romance with an antispecist woman, no matter from which country she comes, than a meet-eater local woman.
I'd like to live in a place where environment and ascetism would be respected instead in a country where worldwide greedy businessmen build houses, highways and destroy the peaceful way of life of my younger age, because they want MORE money.

The problem happens when governments tell to other governments: "You don't have to live like that." When governments don't let immigrant people coming on their soil.

I've got nothing to send all European islamists in Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabian monarch can send his apostats here in Europe.

That's maybe what we have to do on this planet. Philosophical communities instead of countries and we slay the first member who wants to manipulate the community instead to move to another one that fit better to him (her).
That's a proposal.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

What our Russians friends fail to comprehend, is that the shear scale of the Putin victories, appears ridiculous to us in the west, the popularity ratings fall into the same category, even our most loved TV, music and movie stars would fail to get those kind of ratings, as for a politician! No chance!

With all those other candidates on the ballot, many of them must have got zero votes, if his ratings were in the high fifties, or even low sixties, they would be far more credible

I know. This is immensely frustrating for many in the West, but it is a fact that the ratings & election results are real, and backed up by many Western polls and election observers. Even with their own polls, no one has been able to disprove them

But you ask how it's possible, and the answer is simple. In the West, you have politicians & parties that are pretty much all the same, in the sense that all have something you can like, but very many are BSers, especially the top politicians, and few have a track record of success in anything. Many seem to live from "sound bites" and have no substance

Putin is not like that. He doesn't do BS, and he doesn't bluff. He has a strong record of success, despite foreign attempts to stop him. Take a look at this -- what you have to remember is where Russia was before he took over:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_by_GDP_(PPP)

In short, Putin is credible

Palo you do not even live in Russia, if it is so great why?

Many places are great, but I can't live everywhere. I'm not an oligarch, you know

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Just one question. Now you are First Secretary Bowlingreen. You have to run a country that will share more equally the wealth between people.
But against you, you have to fight counter-revolutionary people who like and defend slavery. Who want to kill you and destroy your political system.
What would you make with them?

Please reply honestly?

Well, that's easy, if we are talking about actual slavery, like in the old-time South. I'd fight for the Union, since that's what my ancestors did.

Bu freeing people from actual slavery is different from "sharing the wealth".

A harsh system like slavery precludes the right of individual self determination, which is what America is supposed to be all about.

But you want all wealth to be shared out equally, no matter how hard one person or another has worked to make that wealth?

That is not fair. People deserve to keep what they have individually labored for.

[Roubignol]

I reply to your questions, even if they are not really linked to the Russian topic.

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Well, that's easy, if we are talking about actual slavery, like in the old-time South. I'd fight for the Union, since that's what my ancestors did.

What about if you were at the place of .... Stalin, when fighting the Tsars aficionados?
Would you have let them to kill you or would you have killed them?

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Bu freeing people from actual slavery is different from "sharing the wealth".

A harsh system like slavery precludes the right of individual self determination, which is what America is supposed to be all about.

But we are not really free. Money dictates our way to live.
How many people of 50 years old or more would like to get more free time, but they can't because their boss or the society want that they have to work 5 days a week, 8 hours a day... even if it's to produce a pure crap?

How many people on monday already hope that the next week-end will come as soon as possible? Millions, billions?

In 2018, we could share the jobs, the natural ressources, regulate the ecomical system and get... 5 to 6 days per week free to play baseball, soccer, ride bicycle, play guitar, walking, watching at birds, reading books, etc...
Having healthy environmental friendly hobbies.

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

But you want all wealth to be shared out equally, no matter how hard one person or another has worked to make that wealth?

Not at all.
I only don't want anymore that some unknown "dictators", who I personally don't know, dictate to me that my work is defined by their arbitrary wage.
That money loses its value after a certain period, decided by people I don't need their opinions.
That money had to dictate my way of life.

That's the difference between communism and anarchism.
Anarchy wants freedom and this kind of freedom is more tolerant than the Libertarian freedom, because it's free of the monetarian dictatorship.

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

That is not fair. People deserve to keep what they have individually labored for.

That's interesting that you speak about this.

So, what do you think about the fact that Chinese children workers working in smartphones business earn 130$ per month, working 13 hours a day, having one day free every two weeks and one week holiday per year?
At the same time, shareholders can earn millions of dollars watching their TV thanks to the work of Chinese children. Don't we have to regulate this?

What do you think about the destiny of latino orchards workers paid a misery when contributed to the well-being of the society: link to the American topic They can't feed their own family with their wage.

etc... etc...

I'm not jalous at all about Zuckerberg, but come on... did he work that strong to become one of the richest men in the world comparing to the latino orchard farmer who contributes to bring him the food everyday on his plate?
Is Facebook that essential to the proper functioning of our society?

All those billionaires know themselves that without the society, they would not be rich as they are. Some of them are almost ready to redistribute all their wealth, because they understood that there are something illogical in this system.

PS: It's late here and I'll not spend time to read if my English sentences are correct.
Such a shame that you don't speak French, I'd be more efficient in developping arguments.