Current Politics in the United Kingdom - Page 2

**knobby109** · February 22nd, 2016, 08:08 AM

I can't understand how many Scots want independence when in fact they have a real say in British government (how many Prime Ministers and senior Westminster politicians were Scots ?) yet wish to remain in the EU where they would have little or no influence and be a pawn to Angela Merkel.

**philll_77** · February 22nd, 2016, 10:25 AM

I'd vote to leave, but wonder how the questions will be worded. I don't think it will be In or Out.

1- Stay in.
2- Begin 25 year consultation process to investigate..blah, blah, blah.

Quangoes and Lawyers please form an orderly queue at the trough.

**Sharkhunter** · February 22nd, 2016, 10:32 AM

I love Europe. I have lived and loved all over the continent, and visit frequently. However, for me it's a case of "love Europe, leave the EU".

nudgenudge · February 22nd, 2016, 11:29 AM

Last weeks performance by Cameron in Brussels probably just swayed a few more people like myself to vote out.

Seeing him trying to get agreements with people I've never heard of and more importantly that I've never had a say in their election just brought it home to me that we are better out of it.Lets make our own decisions not rely on unelected bureaucrats to make them for us.

Until last week I wasn't even aware that EU nationals could send home benefits at the UK rate rather than their domestic value
What countries actually check to see if their nationals are entitled to our benefits in the first place,probably nobody,why should they when it's muggins UK picking up the tab.

If we do come out I wonder what country would be next,my money would be on Denmark

mrfin · February 22nd, 2016, 12:24 PM

oh god politics

I see there is a theme of wanting uk out of europe. fair enough but i think its a shit idea.

1. EU laws are called red tape. Really protecting worker rights and enviromental laws protecting what 'nature' we got left is a hindrence. oh sorry business.

2. Europe has always been fighting each other. since ww2 we have had pretty much near peace. I know its only 70 years with a few wars but in euro terms that damn good.

3. The world has big power blocks. US, China, Rus soon to be other countries are solidifying into groups that protect there interests. (think the russian gas cut off winters ago. Germany caved in so the rest did)
Its crazy that eu countries dont act as 1 to stand for there economic and military status. The pathwork is there but this a long term view that i think is probably the most important.

**gordian_knot** · February 22nd, 2016, 03:49 PM

I'll be voting to leave. I supported joinng the Common Market because it seemed sensible in business terms but it was never meant to be a political union and the people never voted for that.

We've seen our independence and our rights dribble away constantly since then, and whatever Cameron may say the ultimate goal is a single European government, which we will eventually end up with if we don't take this chance to leave. It may be our one and only opportunity.

The arguments you'll hear in the media (for and against) are bogus in my opinion. Already they're banging on about security and the economy. Neither will change much whether we're in or out. Security agencies all work hand-in-glove these days and don't have much to do with the EU as an entity. That will continue. And we're such a big economy (soon to be 4th in the world apparently) that people will continue to trade with us. So after a bit of adjustment things will work much as before.

What will be different is that we will once again be in control of our own destiny.

**haroldeye** · February 22nd, 2016, 04:45 PM

MrFin, - The Peace in Europe was due to the standoff between NATO and the Soviet Union. When the USSR collapsed and certain politicians were no longer in fear of 'The Bear' mistakes were made which led to both The Balkans conflict and the problems in Eastern Ukraine. These politicians were not the leaders of the Nations but the Commissioners who were set on enlargement.

The Euro nations have never stood as one. Even when mad Sad invaded Kuwait certain Euronations didn't play. A coalition that included many Arab states and most of the EU ones was formed. Sadly not only did the Belgiums not feel like joining they even refused to sell 155mm Arty Ammo to the Brits in case they upset Saddam.

Many EU inspired laws are good news others are quite frankly a load of bolleaux. A shortage of landfill sites in Holland led to a tax on such sites and filling them throughout the EU. Result we all have to pay Landfill taxes which means that the incidence of fly tipping have increased out of all proportion. It's a lack of thought and a lack of subsidiarity.

**Wendigo** · February 22nd, 2016, 04:45 PM

And if Mrs Krankie wants the Scots to stay in then they'll be back to square one as they'll have the same vote to leave the EU as we do. However we will get region by region figures and I wonder how many Scots have now woke up and realised her one big idea - the security blanket of oil has fallen in value and will that change their votes.
If the Scots as a region voted in favour of staying in Europe they would surely have to have another vote to leave the UK and then negotiate entry into an EU that has lost a net contributor. It will certainly come with a lot more strings attached.
Ye cannae ha yer cake and eat it too laddies.

**otokonomidori** · February 22nd, 2016, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Ye cannae ha yer cake and eat it too laddies.

We're doing very well up here under the current arrangements - free cake
[ and prescriptions and university fees], paid for by the English taxpayer.

**Old Jud** · February 22nd, 2016, 06:51 PM

Time to shut the door and wave goodbye, it was a crap party.
The EU is a mammoth feeding trough for greedy politicians, the most deplorable (and I've little time for any of them) being the 'Champagne Socialist's' of Europe just out to line their pockets, they don't give a feck about the 'proletariat'.

February 22nd, 2016, 10:32 AM	#13
Sharkhunter Gusset Man & Jizzmaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Wanking, but not the city in China Posts: 2,037 Thanks: 5,197 Thanked 34,660 Times in 2,021 Posts	I love Europe. I have lived and loved all over the continent, and visit frequently. However, for me it's a case of "love Europe, leave the EU". __________________ "Birth Control Tip #2431: Shoot your load in a girl's mouth or on her face instead of inside her sweet bits. Result: no expensive burden, stretch marks or saggy tits". To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

February 22nd, 2016, 03:49 PM	#16
gordian_knot Vintage Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Gordium Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 6,524 Thanked 13,823 Times in 1,209 Posts	I'll be voting to leave. I supported joinng the Common Market because it seemed sensible in business terms but it was never meant to be a political union and the people never voted for that. We've seen our independence and our rights dribble away constantly since then, and whatever Cameron may say the ultimate goal is a single European government, which we will eventually end up with if we don't take this chance to leave. It may be our one and only opportunity. The arguments you'll hear in the media (for and against) are bogus in my opinion. Already they're banging on about security and the economy. Neither will change much whether we're in or out. Security agencies all work hand-in-glove these days and don't have much to do with the EU as an entity. That will continue. And we're such a big economy (soon to be 4th in the world apparently) that people will continue to trade with us. So after a bit of adjustment things will work much as before. What will be different is that we will once again be in control of our own destiny. __________________ - "The whole of anything is never told." - Henry James "Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable." - George Orwell

February 22nd, 2016, 04:45 PM	#18
Wendigo Former Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Blighty Posts: 113,771 Thanks: 259,876 Thanked 1,139,237 Times in 113,890 Posts	And if Mrs Krankie wants the Scots to stay in then they'll be back to square one as they'll have the same vote to leave the EU as we do. However we will get region by region figures and I wonder how many Scots have now woke up and realised her one big idea - the security blanket of oil has fallen in value and will that change their votes. If the Scots as a region voted in favour of staying in Europe they would surely have to have another vote to leave the UK and then negotiate entry into an EU that has lost a net contributor. It will certainly come with a lot more strings attached. Ye cannae ha yer cake and eat it too laddies. __________________ RIP Doctor Who To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 23 November 1963 to 25 December 2017, sacrificed on the altar of identity politics. The show is dead to me, but my DVD's live on If you can re-up dead links please consider adding this to your signature. It helps when looking at reports of dead posts. Please PM me re any dead images although it is likely if it is outside Celebs I may no longer have the content

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February 22nd, 2016, 08:08 AM	#11
knobby109 Vintage Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 144 Thanked 14,338 Times in 1,702 Posts	I can't understand how many Scots want independence when in fact they have a real say in British government (how many Prime Ministers and senior Westminster politicians were Scots ?) yet wish to remain in the EU where they would have little or no influence and be a pawn to Angela Merkel.

February 22nd, 2016, 10:25 AM	#12
philll_77 Vintage Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Beasley Street Posts: 2,445 Thanks: 43,824 Thanked 29,606 Times in 2,443 Posts	I'd vote to leave, but wonder how the questions will be worded. I don't think it will be In or Out. 1- Stay in. 2- Begin 25 year consultation process to investigate..blah, blah, blah. Quangoes and Lawyers please form an orderly queue at the trough.

February 22nd, 2016, 11:29 AM	#14
nudgenudge Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 215 Thanks: 242 Thanked 2,677 Times in 211 Posts	Last weeks performance by Cameron in Brussels probably just swayed a few more people like myself to vote out. Seeing him trying to get agreements with people I've never heard of and more importantly that I've never had a say in their election just brought it home to me that we are better out of it.Lets make our own decisions not rely on unelected bureaucrats to make them for us. Until last week I wasn't even aware that EU nationals could send home benefits at the UK rate rather than their domestic value What countries actually check to see if their nationals are entitled to our benefits in the first place,probably nobody,why should they when it's muggins UK picking up the tab. If we do come out I wonder what country would be next,my money would be on Denmark

February 22nd, 2016, 12:24 PM	#15
mrfin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: hovel + Posts: 368 Thanks: 13,746 Thanked 6,790 Times in 352 Posts	oh god politics I see there is a theme of wanting uk out of europe. fair enough but i think its a shit idea. 1. EU laws are called red tape. Really protecting worker rights and enviromental laws protecting what 'nature' we got left is a hindrence. oh sorry business. 2. Europe has always been fighting each other. since ww2 we have had pretty much near peace. I know its only 70 years with a few wars but in euro terms that damn good. 3. The world has big power blocks. US, China, Rus soon to be other countries are solidifying into groups that protect there interests. (think the russian gas cut off winters ago. Germany caved in so the rest did) Its crazy that eu countries dont act as 1 to stand for there economic and military status. The pathwork is there but this a long term view that i think is probably the most important.

February 22nd, 2016, 04:45 PM	#17
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,715 Thanks: 113,493 Thanked 59,963 Times in 5,707 Posts	MrFin, - The Peace in Europe was due to the standoff between NATO and the Soviet Union. When the USSR collapsed and certain politicians were no longer in fear of 'The Bear' mistakes were made which led to both The Balkans conflict and the problems in Eastern Ukraine. These politicians were not the leaders of the Nations but the Commissioners who were set on enlargement. The Euro nations have never stood as one. Even when mad Sad invaded Kuwait certain Euronations didn't play. A coalition that included many Arab states and most of the EU ones was formed. Sadly not only did the Belgiums not feel like joining they even refused to sell 155mm Arty Ammo to the Brits in case they upset Saddam. Many EU inspired laws are good news others are quite frankly a load of bolleaux. A shortage of landfill sites in Holland led to a tax on such sites and filling them throughout the EU. Result we all have to pay Landfill taxes which means that the incidence of fly tipping have increased out of all proportion. It's a lack of thought and a lack of subsidiarity.

February 22nd, 2016, 06:51 PM	#20
Old Jud Vintage Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 840 Thanks: 7,251 Thanked 8,633 Times in 819 Posts	Time to shut the door and wave goodbye, it was a crap party. The EU is a mammoth feeding trough for greedy politicians, the most deplorable (and I've little time for any of them) being the 'Champagne Socialist's' of Europe just out to line their pockets, they don't give a feck about the 'proletariat'.