Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Sorry, but that's my right to contradict wrong informations.

No you just asked him if he had read it although he had already confirmed he had read it in depth, the plain fact is that some books are so badly written that many people can read the same passages and get a totally different interpretation.
It's even worse when reading such books with hindsight.

[george anson]

Society will be fine under capitalism until there is some critical event be it environmental or man made that pushes the masses to critically look at the world around them and see what modern capitalism is and how it causes huge disparities in wealth.

Then despite the rich elites continually buying themselves favours with politicians and bending the rules changes come. It happens with alarming and perhaps reassuring regularity in human history.

I look at the ills of society and the issues confronting it and I feel that most are simply caused by this need in economic models to increase GDP, to improve the standard of living and the ideas implanted in the minds of the masses to keep buying as if it guarantees peace of mind and happiness.

All of which ignore practical reality that we live on a planet with finite resources and ability to tolerate this growth be it in terms of consumers and material goods.

It is a sad reflection on the world that the rich continue to be parasites on society subverting the rules to their liking and that politicians always seem to be in hoc to them instead of creating societies which are more equitable and have fairer distribution of wealth. I am hoping more political parties like the Five Star movement in Italy grow as one of their key policies is degrowth.

The UN needs with world governments to take action on the banking system to prevent siphoning of wealth outside of countries to tax havens and ensure transparency of where and how that wealth is derived from. Ideally all tax havens need to be abolished.

As for Communism in Russia in this farcical presidential election not just the CP but the other runners are led as usual in the political world by people who pretend to be of the people but are corrupt, inordinately wealthy and part of the apparatus.

I remember watching Gordan Buchanan meets a tribe and how cheerful, together and welcoming these people are. People who in our eyes have precious little in the way of material goods but in my eyes are some of the nicest I have ever seen on the television willing to share what they have without even being asked.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

No you just asked him if he had read it although he had already confirmed he had read it in depth, the plain fact is that some books are so badly written that many people can read the same passages and get a totally different interpretation.
It's even worse when reading such books with hindsight.

You reacted when I was showing that he probably didn't understand the contents thanks analysis of University Professor.

Many historians and philosophers told that accusing Marx of anti-semitism was a total lack of probity or caused by misinformations.

That's quite sure that a huge anti-Marxist propaganda was created in the USA and in Europe by non-egalitarian (unfair) people.

I don't get any problems to debate with deepsepia (who pushed myself to improve my knowledges) and other members.
But I (and surely he) don't need someone who answers at his place. You are not his lawyer.
Honestly speaking, I don't know what you are doing here. Before you came in this topic, discussions were more clear and debates more fair.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by george anson

I remember watching Gordan Buchanan meets a tribe and how cheerful, together and welcoming these people are. People who in our eyes have precious little in the way of material goods but in my eyes are some of the nicest I have ever seen on the television willing to share what they have without even being asked.

I think many of us no matter what system we live under are more than happy to share and help others. I don't need religion or some outdated philosophy to tell me what to do, it is simply in many of our natures as human beings.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Honestly speaking, I don't know what you are doing here. Before you came in this topic, discussions were more clear and debates more fair.

No they weren't, this thread is amongst the most meandering on the forum, it asked a simple question
Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

That question has been answered fully, Communism when put into practice sucks. I have suggested you may want to start another thread about Marxism, if you want to separate it from Communism and you declined.
I do not support unregulated Capitalism but all Communist systems to date have crashed spectacularly.

You have moved it off topic onto the theories of Marx which to me is a totally separate subject and something I don't care two figs about, however I do have strong opinions about Communism as we know it from all the failed Communist states.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

No they weren't, this thread is amongst the most meandering on the forum, it asked a simple question
Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

That question has been answered fully, Communism when put into practice sucks. I have suggested you may want to start another thread about Marxism, if you want to separate it from Communism and you declined.
I do not support unregulated Capitalism but all Communist systems to date have crashed spectacularly.

You have moved it off topic onto the theories of Marx which to me is a totally separate subject and something I don't care two figs about, however I do have strong opinions about Communism as we know it.

I PERSONNALY spoke with Eastern European people who lived in Communist Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, telling me that living in Communism was good and a colleague of Poland telling me that hated to be rationalized.

They came in Switzerland during the Yugoslavian wars or after the fall of Iron curtain. According to them, Capitalism is not THAT better.

Did you observe that if you don't get any money in UK, you will be throw out of your flat and will have to look in the garbages to find food?
Try to live outside the way that is dictated by your state. You will see if you will be not confronted by a form of totalitarianism.

I repeat here, as Brian249 wrote here, Communism and democracy are compatible.

Read first the books of Marx and you will understand that is not that old-fashioned.
If his analysis today come back after the subprime crisis (the collapse of Capitalism), the overpopulation, the Brexit, the environmental destruction, the Third World children and workers exploitation, it's because it was quite clear that he was one of the rare philosophers who really understood the dangers of this economic system.

As Brexiter, you have to read Marx. All your fears were analysed by Marx.

Instead to watch movies like "the sodomised butcher puppet", read Engels and Marx and you will become a Marxist.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

As Brexiter, you have to read Marx. All your fears were analysed by Marx.

Instead to watch movies like "the sodomised butcher puppet", read Engels and Marx and you will become a Marxist.

I have no doubt some people lived well Communism but as we have stated many times the leaders were brutal thugs and if you dared to disagree you would not be heard from again. I hate apologists for tyrants.

I will not be reading Marx for reasons I have clearly stated before but you disagree with. if I were to read any books from 150 years ago they will be by Dickens.

Thanks for the movie hint though, I'll have a look for it..... hang on a minute isn't "The memoirs of a Sodomising Butcher's Puppet" just the biography of an NKVD interrogator

[LaughingBoy]

Originally Posted by george anson

Society will be fine under capitalism until there is some critical event be it environmental or man made that pushes the masses to critically look at the world around them and see what modern capitalism is and how it causes huge disparities in wealth.

Then despite the rich elites continually buying themselves favours with politicians and bending the rules changes come. It happens with alarming and perhaps reassuring regularity in human history.

I look at the ills of society and the issues confronting it and I feel that most are simply caused by this need in economic models to increase GDP, to improve the standard of living and the ideas implanted in the minds of the masses to keep buying as if it guarantees peace of mind and happiness.

All of which ignore practical reality that we live on a planet with finite resources and ability to tolerate this growth be it in terms of consumers and material goods.

It is a sad reflection on the world that the rich continue to be parasites on society subverting the rules to their liking and that politicians always seem to be in hoc to them instead of creating societies which are more equitable and have fairer distribution of wealth. I am hoping more political parties like the Five Star movement in Italy grow as one of their key policies is degrowth.

The UN needs with world governments to take action on the banking system to prevent siphoning of wealth outside of countries to tax havens and ensure transparency of where and how that wealth is derived from. Ideally all tax havens need to be abolished.

As for Communism in Russia in this farcical presidential election not just the CP but the other runners are led as usual in the political world by people who pretend to be of the people but are corrupt, inordinately wealthy and part of the apparatus.

I remember watching Gordan Buchanan meets a tribe and how cheerful, together and welcoming these people are. People who in our eyes have precious little in the way of material goods but in my eyes are some of the nicest I have ever seen on the television willing to share what they have without even being asked.

VERY well put!

I'm no Poly Sci Major, but from my (fairly) well informed man on the street position, the best system for the maximized Utility, would be democratic socialism. There's no huge wealth gap, and everybody has enough. (and those social democracies are dominating the top ten list of happiest countries.)

The down side of Marxism AND Capitalism is that they both allow wealth gaps. And suffering did ensue...
The 1% in Capitalism or the "Thugs" in Marxism that Wendigo speaks of, they both skim massive amounts of Labor's cream for themselves. In my opinion, the wealth gap is the number one problem in this world.

The anger in the populace of "Things Aren't as Good as They Once Were!", has been skillfully redirected at immigrants, who AREN'T the problem. Billionaires are. With proper wealth distribution....(drum roll) YOUR country could crack the TOP TEN LIST!

...Wealth Distribution....get some...Today!

[Mal Hombre]

[footstep]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

But today, totalitarianism movement called Capitalism sucks.

So what is the alternative?

There ain't any.
Any.