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March 1st, 2018, 10:29 PM | #511 | |
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You must be an agent of the CIA
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March 1st, 2018, 10:41 PM | #512 | |
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It explains nothing about the political reasons that would impose starvation in the country. They only filled a American Q&A about the quality and the quantity of the food they eat. Do you get a link about the political causes that would explain why Maduro deliberately would like to starve his population? |
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March 1st, 2018, 10:58 PM | #513 | |
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Later Kroutchev told to Mao to be careful not making the same mistake, but Mao didn't listen to him and caused another famine. But it was another era. In countries badly developped and industrialised. In comparison between 1891-92 (40 years before), the Russian famine killed 2 millions Russians. Russia was not Stalinist. |
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March 1st, 2018, 11:00 PM | #514 |
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March 1st, 2018, 11:05 PM | #515 | |||
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The longer version: Venezuela, being an oil producer, always had a relatively small agricultural sector-- they imported a lot of food. The Chavez and Maduro governments, carrying out Marxist theory: a) collectivized domestic agriculture --- surprise, just like when governments seize farmers' and everywhere else, production fell and b) they harassed and ultimately seized the property of the private companies that were importing food. And what happened? Turns out that "revolutionary Marxists" don't actually know anything about how to distribute food. And so the companies that once imported food to Venezuela, transported it to stores and stocked the shelves-- they're now all effectively controlled by the government. . . . and the government can't actually do the job. Here's a bit of what happened, this is an article from some years ago, when Chavez was still alive-- but it explains just why Venezuela is where it is: Quote:
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March 1st, 2018, 11:43 PM | #516 |
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They filled an American Q&A.
If you follow the link written on the pdf you arrive there: https://www.ers.usda.gov/media/8282/short2012.pdf A USDA Q&A. I'd like to know which Marxist theories described how to starve its population? We have to ask our friend Brecht. I'm not that expert about Marxism. Personnaly I'd see the Venezuelian problems as pure consequences of liberalism, that never developped the structure of a third world country during 80 years and today does not propose to help a starving population, but to invade the country and finance a revolution. When the people kicked out the invaders and gave the power to a soldier, the soldier only was... a soldier. That has nothing to do with Marxism. Marxism is : free public education, equality of rights between men and women, no private property or inherited wealth, steeply graduated income tax, centralised control of the banking, communication, and transport industries. It was not the case in liberalism. Before Marxism, poor children had to work and had no education, women had not the same rights as men, Today liberalism still promote inherited private properties that spoile areas to the people, banking are private and create fake debts, working poors are legions and greed good, etc... |
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March 2nd, 2018, 12:01 AM | #517 | ||||
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You see, here's the rub: some commissar forces farmers off their land onto a collective farm, and what happens: food production collapses. Some commissar takes over the distribution of food, and what happens? It doesn't get distributed. This experiment has been repeated over and over. The only thing left that's surprising is that some folks aren't aware of it. That's what's happening to Venezuela today. I might note that every time there's a famine in a country run by Marxists, they ponder the question "should we let people grow more food for themselves, and sell it on private markets?" Because that's the only way to get an adequate food supply. "State Hegemony of the Food Supply" leads to famine. This was one of Fidel's most consistent battles in Cuba: Quote:
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March 2nd, 2018, 07:53 AM | #518 |
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As for life in the DDR being so great how come so many were shot and killed at the Berlin Wall if all they were doing was trying to travel to West Berlin to bring the good news of how fantastic their lives were
A bureaucracy that was out of control where jumped up little pricks became power crazed mini-fuhrers if you did not have the right forms with you https://thevieweast.wordpress.com/20...fe-in-the-gdr/ https://www.hdg.de/en/museum-in-der-...fe-in-the-gdr/ "How did the country function in which for 40 years a bread roll cost 5 pfennigs, but there were as good as no bananas? The country that built the highest TV tower in Germany, but did not provide enough housing to go around? That produced beautiful fairy-tale films, but forced critical artists into exile?" http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-707570.html Claiming the DDR (Democratic Republic ) was some sort of Communist Nirvana is total bollocks. If it was such a fantastic place to live how come ordinary people were shot trying to leave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...he_Berlin_Wall Why were the people subject to controls as to what they could read or watch? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censor...n_East_Germany
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March 2nd, 2018, 11:20 AM | #519 | ||
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That's a biaised argument. Famine occured during transition or because of the international division of work. A lot of capitalist countries today are still unable to feed their own population. They import a lot of food. Everything is ok for them, as long as they follow the rules imposed by capitalism. You always point the consequences of defying the capitalism dictatorship. Quote:
Honestly speaking, I never understood why these "Communist" countries didn't let their people immigrating to capitalist ones. It would have been fair to let greedy people going to the lands of greed. But I hope you will agree that the US imperialism has not to be defended too. That's the point of view of Professor Jacquard. Why Communist countries and Capitalist ones do not collaborate together. If you want to live in Collectivism, you go to a collectivist country, if you want to live in a Capitalist one, you can immigrate there. But there always were blocus from both parts. That's one more time the demonstration that a real free world as defined by the Anarchists never existed. Last edited by Roubignol; March 2nd, 2018 at 11:30 AM.. |
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March 2nd, 2018, 01:01 PM | #520 | |
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When Stalin was doing forced collectivization, he sent soldiers to take food away from the peasants and kulaks by force, because they resisted being integrated into the new collectivist Soviet economy. Communism feared the idea of independent farmers retaining land, and their surpluses, and engaging in capitalist behavior by selling those surpluses for what they could get. As a result, millions starved. That's a pretty clear example of an ideology protecting itself by harming the very people it was supposed to make "equal". I also have to point out that even once they stabilized collectivism, production was always lower than what it had been when the peasants were free to produce and sell as they pleased. This pretty much went on until the end of the Soviet Union. They imported a lot of grain from us and others over the years because of the inefficiency of their collective farm system. See this chart starting in the 1960s: https://www.indexmundi.com/agricultu...&graph=imports And this in a Socialist empire that possessed the richest wheat-growing territory in the world, i.e. the Ukraine. I don't think Stalin was much interested in international trade and imports at all, either, when he was running the show, he wanted self-sufficiency. I wonder how well the average Soviet citizen ate while he was alive? My guess would be, not very well. We put a grain embargo on them in 1980, for invading Afghanistan, this really didn't do much good, actually, it hurt our own farmers more than anyone else, I remember their were protests about it. This was about the time the big farm/land crisis in our country was getting set to ramp up into disaster for the family farmer.
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