Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[palo5]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

I daresay we'll muddle through somehow like we always have done; regardless of "the envy of less happy lands"

At least you'll be "flexible" enough to pay everyone less and lower standards everywhere

... except for the top 1%

[Meini Again]

Freedom from the EC telling us to grow straight bananas - Daily Mail~~~A lie
Or Square tomatos - Daily Express~~~ A lie
No-Meat Sausages - Daily Mail AND Express ~~ A lie
1 Million Refugees by 2018/20 - Mail / Express / Times / ~~ A Lie
1 million Immigrants by 2016 - Express ~~ A Lie

........

As most of the UK Ink Media are right-wing and have been carrying out years of propoganda against the EC, it is not surprising to see the sheep following their indroctination.
Happily~~ the sheep don't bother to vote.

Too much hassle going to a library and doing a cross ~~ easier to vote on a forum. Job done

........

Loss of markets, loss of jobs a disentanglement with NATO would be inevitable ~~ who would trust the UK?
As an American ally or a new Russian Ally. ?

WE get 40% of our Fuel from Russia ~~ Germany gets closer to 70% ~~
Russia turns off the taps and whom do we or Germany support ?
With the UK outside the EC...and still involved with the USA ?

.......

I really don't understand the right-wingers wanting us to leave the EC?

Where on Earth is our future trade base?
We are a Trading Nation ~~ an Island.
The US won't, and can't replace the loss to our economy.

INSANITY from what we call the "Little Englanders"~~UKIP etc.

But why are so many MAJORITY ink press/ Newspaers / media so against the EC? And have been for years?
What is their Agenda ?

Thank Goodness Forum Voters Don't actually vote.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by Meini Again

Thank Goodness Forum Voters Don't actually vote.

Did you read that in the Daily Mail too?

[thunderfly]

Originally Posted by Meini Again

Freedom from the EC telling us to grow straight bananas - Daily Mail~~~A lie
Or Square tomatos - Daily Express~~~ A lie
No-Meat Sausages - Daily Mail AND Express ~~ A lie
1 Million Refugees by 2018/20 - Mail / Express / Times / ~~ A Lie
1 million Immigrants by 2016 - Express ~~ A Lie

........

As most of the UK Ink Media are right-wing and have been carrying out years of propoganda against the EC, it is not surprising to see the sheep following their indroctination.
Happily~~ the sheep don't bother to vote.

Too much hassle going to a library and doing a cross ~~ easier to vote on a forum. Job done

........

Loss of markets, loss of jobs a disentanglement with NATO would be inevitable ~~ who would trust the UK?
As an American ally or a new Russian Ally. ?

WE get 40% of our Fuel from Russia ~~ Germany gets closer to 70% ~~
Russia turns off the taps and whom do we or Germany support ?
With the UK outside the EC...and still involved with the USA ?

.......

I really don't understand the right-wingers wanting us to leave the EC?

Where on Earth is our future trade base?
We are a Trading Nation ~~ an Island.
The US won't, and can't replace the loss to our economy.

INSANITY from what we call the "Little Englanders"~~UKIP etc.

But why are so many MAJORITY ink press/ Newspaers / media so against the EC? And have been for years?
What is their Agenda ?

Thank Goodness Forum Voters Don't actually vote.

If us 'sheep' don't bother to vote then what exactly are you worrying about? The result you're hoping for is a foregone conclusion.

[Attila The Hun]

Originally Posted by Brecht

Yes but not if you depart. It's the neoliberal economic policy that has led the EU (Britain included) to a dead end.

Neo-Liberalism is the main cause of unemployment in this country, not to mention it caused massive amounts of repression and economic downfall in countries such as Chile (under Pinochet). Instead of tackling the problems by adopting policies that stimulate jobs and better education, all the main parties in the UK do is adopt yet more neo-Liberal policies which compound the situation more. I am not sure where neo-liberals get off with their rants and raved against communism being a failure when their ideology is a laughable failure itself and one that sadly refuses to just depart the world stage, instead leaving us to look upon its festering corps to this day. What is happening with Europe is not a surprise to critics of neo-Liberal policies.

Its also pretty funny hearing the Tory party attacking the EU and attacking the Labour party for (supposedly) supporting the EU when it was the Tories who got us tangled with the European Union as an anti-communist measure!

[Attila The Hun]

Originally Posted by Oswald

This issue is not about party politics. To prove this we have a situation where two leaders of completely different political persuasions, namely Farage of UKIP and Galloway of Respect, have joined with others from the Conservatives and Labour to set up the Grassroots Out campaign.

And Tony Benn, probably the most famous and well-loved UK leftist of the last 50 years, was against the EU and thought we should leave. I hate the way even many people of my own political persuasion are trying to turn this into a polarizing left vs. right issue when it is not. I do not like the EU but I am very distant from Farage politically, and I would prefer the UK to leave the EU but only if it can cut itself from the EU more gradually and if we can leave based on legitimate issues and not blind xenophobia.

Whether we leave or not is not as important an issue as some are making out. The UK needs to fix its unemployment, homelessness, unfair wages, poor education, privatized industry and other problems. These issues should be of paramount importance but the UK government and its right-wing media lackeys are throwing the EU debate on the table to obscure the real problems festering in the heart of the United Kingdom.

[Attila The Hun]

Originally Posted by gordian_knot

New laws that favour Turkey, it's customs, beliefs and laws over ours?

And what insidious customs, beliefs and laws are these that the EU will adopt? Turkey is a problem most;ly due to the fact that it is a neo-Liberal partner of the US and its ilk, it is not some sort of Islamic hellhole where they cut of hands if you rob bread from a market stall! The majority of Turks are very westernized and even when they are of the Islamic faith they are of the secular, ''church on Sunday'' type that Englanders tend to be! Turkey is a secular and modern country just like England and most of its faults are caused by the same tfactors our faults are caused by.

Originally Posted by palo5

I agree the EU was no help, but the EU is designed to keep Germany & France from exploding each other, and is absolutely not geared to handle a Ukraine situation. The troublemakers in Ukraine are the Americans and the neo-nazis they support, not to mention attention-seeking allies in the Nato you so love

Agreed. I have issues with Putin, but he is certainly not the main villain in the Ukrainian crisis, that roles lies squarely with the new quasi-junta that governs the country since the US-supported coup.

Originally Posted by palo5

Sorry harold, you know it's not personal, but Nato is a serious warmongering enterprise, imho

Well said. Evidence of this can be found in Serbia where you can still see bombed out hospitals and water plants and in ''heroic'' Kosovo where there is a massive amount of prejudice and violence towards the Serbs and Romani there. The US attacked Serbia because it didn't want anything to do with NATO and fabricated lies and distortions about the conflict. If NATO really cared about ethnic cleansing, they'd be on to Kosovo like a flash.

[gordian_knot]

Originally Posted by Attila The Hun

And what insidious customs, beliefs and laws are these that the EU will adopt? Turkey is a problem most;ly due to the fact that it is a neo-Liberal partner of the US and its ilk, it is not some sort of Islamic hellhole where they cut of hands if you rob bread from a market stall! The majority of Turks are very westernized and even when they are of the Islamic faith they are of the secular, ''church on Sunday'' type that Englanders tend to be! Turkey is a secular and modern country just like England and most of its faults are caused by the same tfactors our faults are caused by.

I don't think many people would recognise the picture you've just painted. I agree many Turks are fairly secular and (in terms of culture) Western-orientated. But their government is not. Erdogan's AK party has carried on a relentless Islamification of Turkish society and institutions to the point where the country as a whole cannot any longer be described as secular, even if some of the people are. Erdogan has been in power for over 20 years (the hallmark of any dictator), has a vice-like grip on Turkish society and is behind the war in Syria for purely religious reasons.

Neoliberalism has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening in Turkey, rather it's a combination of religious hatred (of Assad and Shiites in general), the maintenance of power and the long-term goal of a more fundamentalist religious state.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by Attila The Hun

Turkey is a secular and modern country just like England

You couldn't make it up !

[Attila The Hun]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

You couldn't make it up !

Turkey is not an Islamic country, I am sorry. It is a secular country simply with a Muslim in power, much as many secular countries have Christian parties in government. If Turkey is made into a religious state, a guardian coup by the highly Kemalist military is very likely; it is enshrined in law. And Erdogan's Justice and Development party isn't even an Islamic party which some people seem to think it is, it is a conservative, neo-liberal party that is mostly about big business. However, like most conservative parties, it has some religious followers and religious motives. However, Erdogan isn't quite a fundamentalist Muslim, simply a socially conservative one in a modern context. As bad as he is, he has never pushed for anything resembling Wahhabism.

There is a difference between a secular country with a leader with faith and a religious state such as Saudi Arabia.