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View Poll Results: Leave The EU or stay in The EU?
Leave The EU. 334 54.40%
Stay in The EU. 240 39.09%
I don't care either way/won't be voting. 27 4.40%
I'd rather not say. 13 2.12%
Voters: 614. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-26-2016, 05:18 AM   #1021
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Originally Posted by Puhbear69 View Post
Those phrases are the basics of any "nation of law".

One can't change the "contractual base" of a referendum for example or simply a business, and saying afterwards "April, April" it wasn't meant like this.
Okoto probably knows more about legal principles than I do, but I did have to study contract law a little bit as part of my professional training. As I remember it:
Offer + Acceptance = Contract.

If the contract is accepted it becomes binding on both parties. You dont get to walk away because you changed your mind afterwards; though you can re-negotiate if the other party is willing to compromise, or you can merely break the contract, in which case there are penalties.

The rest of the UK has neither broken nor varied any clause in its contract with Scotland. We share a common identity and must all stick together. That is the contract. It seems to be the SNP which wants Scotland to break the contract with us. I do not know if the rest of the UK has a legal power to refuse Scotland a fresh independence referendum but if we do have such a power then it is up to the SNP to explain why we should not invoke a power of refusal. We will, of course, listen to whatever they have to say to us.
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Old 06-26-2016, 05:41 AM   #1022
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Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
If any Brits are interested, I've just started a petition to get the Brit Govt to refuse to consider the 2nd referendum petition. It needs 5 other people to support it, so if you are inclined to do so let me know and I'll email you the link. Apparently I have to do it that way.
sorry im all for this second
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Old 06-26-2016, 06:06 AM   #1023
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Originally Posted by Devius View Post
the UK (the World's fifth largest economy)

Actually it's the ninth or tenth largest by GDP PPP and has been for a long time

However, since Thursday it's economy is 10% smaller, so it's actually tenth or eleventh today, and will be eleventh or twelfth by next year -- Italy probably won't overtake it, but Mexico almost certainly will

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_by_GDP_(PPP)
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Old 06-26-2016, 06:21 AM   #1024
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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
Actually it's the ninth or tenth largest by GDP PPP and has been for a long time

However, since Thursday it's economy is 10% smaller, so it's actually tenth or eleventh today, and will be eleventh or twelfth by next year -- Italy probably won't overtake it, but Mexico almost certainly will

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_by_GDP_(PPP)
I am sure that you are feeling really unhappy for us, Comrade Palo.
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Old 06-26-2016, 06:29 AM   #1025
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Watching Brexit from over here in North America, I was not expecting the UK to leave the European Union. But after a long chat with my Uncle (British Citizen) in the UK, I should not have been surprised. The resentment against the EU has been building up for a while in the United Kingdom, so when the people go their say, the decision to leave was not surprising given the circumstances behind the vote. I guess many of the "leave" voters were like him, they got tired of someone else telling them what to do.

I always believed that one of the countries in the EU would leave with all of the problems with illegal immigration, the EU economy and other problems affecting the EU, but never expected the UK to be the first decide to leave. Now we all have to wait and see what happens, I think that the UK will be better off in the long run, many industries that have declined because it was take by the EU and given to the European continent will return over time to the UK, the weaker Pound Sterling will make the UK more affordable as well for tourist and businesses.
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:07 AM   #1026
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Originally Posted by scoundrel View Post
Okoto probably knows more about legal principles than I do, but I did have to study contract law a little bit as part of my professional training. As I remember it:
Offer + Acceptance = Contract.

If the contract is accepted it becomes binding on both parties. You dont get to walk away because you changed your mind afterwards; though you can re-negotiate if the other party is willing to compromise, or you can merely break the contract, in which case there are penalties.

The rest of the UK has neither broken nor varied any clause in its contract with Scotland. We share a common identity and must all stick together. That is the contract. It seems to be the SNP which wants Scotland to break the contract with us. I do not know if the rest of the UK has a legal power to refuse Scotland a fresh independence referendum but if we do have such a power then it is up to the SNP to explain why we should not invoke a power of refusal. We will, of course, listen to whatever they have to say to us.

Sorry M'learned Scoundrels' and Otokos'

A contract can be considered void if it restricts trade- clearly this does.
A contract can also be voidable (different from void)- why dont I just shut up and avoid ( different in law ) - aaaaaaaaaaargh a quick boot in the nads from a mod for boring everyone!
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:19 AM   #1027
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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
Actually it's the ninth or tenth largest by GDP PPP and has been for a long time

However, since Thursday it's economy is 10% smaller, so it's actually tenth or eleventh today, and will be eleventh or twelfth by next year -- Italy probably won't overtake it, but Mexico almost certainly will

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_by_GDP_(PPP)
I had based my comments on ye olde wiki, but shortened the following sentence:

The United Kingdom has the fifth-largest national economy (and second-largest in EU) measured by nominal GDP and ninth-largest in the world (and second-largest in the EU measured by purchasing power parity (PPP).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...United_Kingdom

However I think France has now overtaken the UK as the fifth largest economy in the world after the Pound plunged following Britain's vote to leave the European Union.

[EDIT] The BBC are now stating that up to half of the shadow cabinet is set to resign in a bid to force Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to step down.
It follows the sacking of shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn overnight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36632956

The aftershocks from Brexit continues...
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Last edited by Devius; 06-26-2016 at 07:25 AM..
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:23 AM   #1028
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Originally Posted by emexem View Post
Sorry M'learned Scoundrels' and Otokos'

A contract can be considered void if it restricts trade- clearly this does.
A contract can also be voidable (different from void)- why dont I just shut up and avoid ( different in law ) - aaaaaaaaaaargh a quick boot in the nads from a mod for boring everyone!
What is your basis for this assertion? There are certainly statutes which control contracts and prevent the abuse of power; the Unfair Contract Terms Act comes to mind. There are also case law rulings which prevent the enforcement of a "specific performance" because that is in fact slavery. The most famous specific performance ruling was Warner Brothers v. Nelson ["Nelson" was the actress Bette Davis]. But your comment is very generalised. On what basis may the whole population of the United Kingdom, acting as a body, make a decision which is not binding on Scotland, or for that matter England and/or Wales? Does this mean that Scotland can leave because it elects an SNP or Labour majority of MPs and is then governed by a Conservative administrataion?

The terms of UK trade are set by the central government for the whole UK and Scotland elects MPs to help form that government and has more MPs than her share of the UK population should warrant, and these MPs can vote on laws which affect England and Wales when English MPs cannot vote on the same issues in Scotland because they are decided in Scotland by the Scottish Assembly. Scottish Labour MPs voted down tuition fee support for English students and, in their dual role as Scottish Assembly members, voted up tuition fee support to Scottish students, paid for by English taxpayers under the Barnett Formula. The same thing happened with free care for elderly and infirm people in care homes. Scottish MPs, the very self-same individuals in many cases, said we English couldn't have that, but would have to help pay for it in Scotland and that Scottish people could have that.

I flatly deny that Scotland has any special case or that she has been badly done to in any way whatsoever. I invite you to explain your point.
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:47 AM   #1029
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Originally Posted by scoundrel View Post
What is your basis for this assertion? There are certainly statutes which control contracts and prevent the abuse of power; the Unfair Contract Terms Act comes to mind. There are also case law rulings which prevent the enforcement of a "specific performance" because that is in fact slavery. The most famous specific performance ruling was Warner Brothers v. Nelson ["Nelson" was the actress Bette Davis]. But your comment is very generalised. On what basis may the whole population of the United Kingdom, acting as a body, make a decision which is not binding on Scotland, or for that matter England and/or Wales? Does this mean that Scotland can leave because it elects an SNP or Labour majority of MPs and is then governed by a Conservative administrataion? The terms of UK trade are set by the central government for the whole UK and Scotland elects MPs to help form that government and has more MPs than her share of the UK population should warrant. I flatly deny that Scotland has any special case in that arrangement or that she has been badly done to in any way whatsoever.
Sorry If M'learned Scounds does not think that the Principles of one contracting party bind any subsidiary of that contracting party by voluntarily electing to walk away from their biggest trading partners effectively restricts trade and therefore renders the contract void, one rests ones case. However in the event that M'learned Scounds continues to pursue the case, all costs and consequences will be for his account. This is in addition to any other remedies other parties may pursue, including, but not limited to, the ever-looming boot in the nads from any mods.
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:53 AM   #1030
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Sorry If M'learned Scounds does not think that the Principles of one contracting party bind any subsidiary of that contracting party by voluntarily electing to walk away from their biggest trading partners effectively restricts trade and therefore renders the contract void, one rests ones case. However in the event that M'learned Scounds continues to pursue the case, all costs and consequences will be for his account. This is in addition to any other remedies other parties may pursue, including, but not limited to, the ever-looming boot in the nads from any mods.
You still havent explained your point. I dont think you have one. What is the basis on which Scotland is not a full member of the UK and therefore bound by the collective decision of the UK?
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