Militant Islamists - Page 231

**sea-man** · April 28th, 2019, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

For the purpose of this thread they are Militant Islamist's. Which IMO means those that think ANY one who does not follow their interpretation of the Koran is anathema and can be punished even unto death by torture or what seems to be a favorite beheading.

Or much worse: changing borders, exterminating entire cultures and identities to serve the purpose of ethnic cleansing = genocide. Raping entire families, especially minors as proven by The New Yorker magazine, etc. What is the norms now is far worse and older than anything that took place in the West.

Yet, the mainstream media refuse to broadcast the facts at the ground. Why? Simply because it would have (past tense noted and emphasized) show the victims of torture, mass murder (genocide) and rape (a favourite of the norms now) as a human being.
Ultimately, outside the West, the world does not accept anything that took place in Europe circa 70 years ago. Because it is a two way process, real history is what is being censored and the outside world could not care less if the civilians of the country in the West do not like it. This is equality.
When pregnant women and babies (minors) are being shredded by tank shells or air attacks, no wonder they want revenge. Karma is strong.

**SanteeFats** · April 28th, 2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crinolynne

By dehumanizing your enemy you reduce yourself to their level. It appeals to the mob mentality, which makes us like them.
.

I think you are incorrect to some extent. The purpose of insulting, demeaning terms for an enemy is not to get to their level but to place then as sub-human so it is easier to rationalize the fighting and killing.

**scoundrel** · May 4th, 2019, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crinolynne

Seriously, it adds exactly zilch to any argument you present. It identifies an emotional state of mind which calls into question any reasoned response. By dehumanizing your enemy you reduce yourself to their level. It appeals to the mob mentality, which makes us like them. I mean seriously, I had hoped you'd get that.

But if it made you feel better, good for you.

Mainly it makes clear that there is a line which must not be crossed. ISIL crossed that line. The first time I came to that conclusion was when they burned alive the captured Jordanian pilot as a public entertainment. That used to happen in the Middle Ages, but we left that sickness behind with the Enlightenment.

Only scum would do that now - ergo, ISIL and its supporters are scum. End of.

crinolynne · May 4th, 2019, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Only scum would do that now - ergo, ISIL and its supporters are scum. End of.

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. You've simply missed the point of the question. But others didn't which is a relief. Let me ask it a little differently, as someone with actual combat experience, does thinking of your enemy as scum affect your ability to kill them?
It gets murkier, but it is Saturday and a cold beer awaits.

**scoundrel** · May 4th, 2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crinolynne

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. You've simply missed the point of the question. But others didn't which is a relief. Let me ask it a little differently, as someone with actual combat experience, does thinking of your enemy as scum affect your ability to kill them?
It gets murkier, but it is Saturday and a cold beer awaits.

I wouldn't know, never having been in combat and never having killed anyone. I have been spared that one and I assure you that I know my good fortune.

In theory I am sure that wanting someone dead is a useful starting point when it is your duty to fight them in war - but on the other hand it is important to remember that winning the war is the point, not merely killing people. Victory with fewer enemy dead is preferable to victory with more enemy dead - but only provided you win, and win decisively. Since the likes of ISIL exist on hate for civilisation, there is no peace to be made and decisive victory has to consist of grinding them mercilessly into powder. We and they cannot co-exist. I'm sorry if that's unpalatable but it is what it is.

**haroldeye** · May 4th, 2019, 08:34 PM

Surely that's not a non sequitar. One may think quite highly of an enemy and still kill them.

**seany65** · May 4th, 2019, 10:04 PM

I'm not too sure that saying people who burn people alive, behead them or throw them off the tops of towers etc. as a matter of course during the day and then doing it to someone else tomorrow are scum and their supporters are scum, is quite the same as actually burning people alive, beheading them or throwing them off the tops of towers.

To simplify:

To call someone names (and therefore dehumanise them, according to some people here) is not the same as burning people alive, beheading them or throwing them off the tops of towers and so it cannot be lowering ourselves to their level.

Posted by sea-man:

"Or much worse: changing borders, exterminating entire cultures and identities to serve the purpose of ethnic cleansing = genocide. Raping entire families, especially minors as proven by The New Yorker magazine, etc. What is the norms now is far worse and older than anything that took place in the West.

Yet, the mainstream media refuse to broadcast the facts at the ground. Why? Simply because it would have (past tense noted and emphasized) show the victims of torture, mass murder (genocide) and rape (a favourite of the norms now) as a human being.
Ultimately, outside the West, the world does not accept anything that took place in Europe circa 70 years ago. Because it is a two way process, real history is what is being censored and the outside world could not care less if the civilians of the country in the West do not like it. This is equality.
When pregnant women and babies (minors) are being shredded by tank shells or air attacks, no wonder they want revenge. Karma is strong."

If I understand who you mean by "they" in the last sentence, you mean radical Islamists feeling justified in attacking western countries.

They may feel justified in attacking the west because of the western bombings of Muslim countries, but the truth is, there were Islamic militants in the time of Mohammed. From what I understand, he told his followers to go out and conquer and steal and kill and enslave. This was the basis for Islam's quick expansion through the middle east into North Africa, Spain, Portugal, their attempt to invade France, their spread east into India through Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan, their spread north-east and the north into the Byzantine empire and some of the countries of east Europe and attempts at expansion 1,000 years after Mohamed died.

I think there would still be Islamist militants even if our governments had never done all the sh*t that they did.

**SanteeFats** · May 4th, 2019, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crinolynne

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. You've simply missed the point of the question. But others didn't which is a relief. Let me ask it a little differently, as someone with actual combat experience, does thinking of your enemy as scum affect your ability to kill them?
It gets murkier, but it is Saturday and a cold beer awaits.

I went to Nam three times and I think it does. Of course what they did to captured American's and our allies didn't help at all in feelings of peace and brotherhood.

**sea-man** · May 5th, 2019, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Mainly it makes clear that there is a line which must not be crossed. ISIL crossed that line. The first time I came to that conclusion was when they burned alive the captured Jordanian pilot as a public entertainment. That used to happen in the Middle Ages, but we left that sickness behind with the Enlightenment.

Only scum would do that now - ergo, ISIL and its supporters are scum. End of.

isil were invented by NATO in the Jordanian desert and armed with NATO, israeli and Bulgarian weaponry. So what if the mainstream media, which has been ignored for decades do not broadcast the truth. isil has been flown in NATO helicopters and aircraft. But a few days ago a pregnant Palestinian women, her 14 month old baby and a teenager were slaughtered for simply being Arabs (Semites), this is far worse than anything in Europe in the 1940's. A orthodox Jewish man, Giwer had a website with pictures of melted and shredded Arabs murdered for simply being Semites - to show the world what is really taking place. There is no comparison on the planet. When one side has all the most advance weaponry, admits it tests weapons on a un-armed civilian population and boasts that it will murder more then there will be a time when the world will take out these settler terrorists and get their countries back.

**sea-man** · May 5th, 2019, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

I went to Nam three times and I think it does. Of course what they did to captured American's and our allies didn't help at all in feelings of peace and brotherhood.

So what were you doing in some one elses country? It is no different to anyone whose lands being invaded. Who defines "peace and brotherhood"?

May 4th, 2019, 10:04 PM	#2307
seany65 Vintage Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,651 Thanks: 80,415 Thanked 32,728 Times in 3,527 Posts	I'm not too sure that saying people who burn people alive, behead them or throw them off the tops of towers etc. as a matter of course during the day and then doing it to someone else tomorrow are scum and their supporters are scum, is quite the same as actually burning people alive, beheading them or throwing them off the tops of towers. To simplify: To call someone names (and therefore dehumanise them, according to some people here) is not the same as burning people alive, beheading them or throwing them off the tops of towers and so it cannot be lowering ourselves to their level. Posted by sea-man: "Or much worse: changing borders, exterminating entire cultures and identities to serve the purpose of ethnic cleansing = genocide. Raping entire families, especially minors as proven by The New Yorker magazine, etc. What is the norms now is far worse and older than anything that took place in the West. Yet, the mainstream media refuse to broadcast the facts at the ground. Why? Simply because it would have (past tense noted and emphasized) show the victims of torture, mass murder (genocide) and rape (a favourite of the norms now) as a human being. Ultimately, outside the West, the world does not accept anything that took place in Europe circa 70 years ago. Because it is a two way process, real history is what is being censored and the outside world could not care less if the civilians of the country in the West do not like it. This is equality. When pregnant women and babies (minors) are being shredded by tank shells or air attacks, no wonder they want revenge. Karma is strong." If I understand who you mean by "they" in the last sentence, you mean radical Islamists feeling justified in attacking western countries. They may feel justified in attacking the west because of the western bombings of Muslim countries, but the truth is, there were Islamic militants in the time of Mohammed. From what I understand, he told his followers to go out and conquer and steal and kill and enslave. This was the basis for Islam's quick expansion through the middle east into North Africa, Spain, Portugal, their attempt to invade France, their spread east into India through Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan, their spread north-east and the north into the Byzantine empire and some of the countries of east Europe and attempts at expansion 1,000 years after Mohamed died. I think there would still be Islamist militants even if our governments had never done all the sh*t that they did. __________________ <-- That's Emer Kenny and I want to be stuck in her front bottom. Quote from electrofreak : I'd rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned.

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May 4th, 2019, 08:34 PM	#2306
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,715 Thanks: 113,479 Thanked 59,962 Times in 5,707 Posts	Surely that's not a non sequitar. One may think quite highly of an enemy and still kill them.