Questions for our American friends

[mjefferys1]

Unfortunately the hospitals, doctors and drug companies overcharge horrendously and US insurance companies are thieves (perhaps even murders when you see their business practices), you have never seen so many exclusions and cop out phrases in a contract. Even if they do pay up the co-pay system sucks big time.
The European government run systems are generally wasteful and a hole for tax payers money. But imagine having a very sick kid or wife and insurance that has maxed out on its payment limit. Do I pay the mortgage, do we eat or does Mum get her medical treatment?
Weasels and worse!

[9876543210]

Rotzopop,

Originally Posted by Rotzopop

Holy sh...!
I pay about 300€/month plus 300€ from the company I work for.
But this also depends on how much money you make per month, the more you make, the more you pay.

300 pounds (or is that Euros) would be about $450 per month. Most everybody around here would be happy to pay that (maybe people in their 20's or early 30's pay that amount, I don't know.) But once you hit 40, watch out.

But what really knocks me off is, that you say, that lots of people get bancrott when they get an illness.
This is something, that won`t happen in Germany.

I think you mean bankrupt here but, don't just take my word for it, do a google search on "top reasons for us bankruptcy". Its really quite enlightening. Here's a little something just from the first link:

Medical Expenses (42%)

Recent studies have shown that 42% of all personal bankruptcies are a result of medical expenses. The study also reveals that 78% of those who filed had insurance.

78% of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. Imagine that. Here's another link:

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

So if someone tells you the US has the best healthcare system in the world you should know they are either very, very rich and can afford to self insure or they are stupid and/or stupid and Republican.

At least you get social money plus social healthcare.

Not sure what you mean here but I think you're talking about Social Security and Medicare. If you make it to older age you do qualify. It was designed to start at age 65 but lots of blue collar workers are starting to take it at age 62. There is a penalty for that but, if you can't do you job any more (physically) then you do what you have to do.

You must also know that Medicare only pays about 80% of most bills (and maybe none of your prescription costs). So Medicare (although probably better then private insurance) has its problems and, again, unless you're wealthy, you'll probably wind up broke by the time your ready to pass. So Medicare works somewhat for most people but for others it doesn't work at all. Very few people on Indian reservations have Medicare because they can't afford the 20%. You're beginning to see this all over the US now.

I mean: if you have been working for 35 years, paying taxes and get ill (thats usual for older people!), then its like you only have the choice of dying or getting bancrupt?
My god: this is a shame!

Thats getting to be SOP here. A couple of years ago there was a Federal House Representative from Florida who gave a presentation before the House. It went something like this:

The Republican Plan for Healthcare! Don't get sick! But if you do..... Die Quickly!

"What you have done to the least of my brothers, you have done to me!" (bad translation, but I think you know what I mean! )
CU
Rotzo

Yup, familiar with it. The Republicans like to espouse that kind of stuff but they forget it quickly when confronted with their true god, Money!

[9876543210]

mjefferys1,

Originally Posted by mjefferys1

Unfortunately the hospitals, doctors and drug companies overcharge horrendously and US insurance companies are thieves (perhaps even murders when you see their business practices), you have never seen so many exclusions and cop out phrases in a contract. Even if they do pay up the co-pay system sucks big time.
The European government run systems are generally wasteful and a hole for tax payers money. But imagine having a very sick kid or wife and insurance that has maxed out on its payment limit. Do I pay the mortgage, do we eat or does Mum get her medical treatment?
Weasels and worse!

Several years ago I would have thought you were at least exaggerating, or lying. But I've now seen it myself, several times. Too true..... too true.

[winebeavis]

In my experience the medical issue comes up in about 50% of the bankruptcies that I file. Typically as a compounding factor in that a person was out of work for X amount of time because of illness or injury and they just got so far behind. And there is a lot of medical debt to boot. For whatever reason, medical debts are pursued by collectors the least aggressively. At least around these parts anyway. Rare is the debtor who has a lot of his own medical debt, but didn't miss time off from work.

Very rarely are medical bills and expenses solely the reason for filing a bankruptcy. It does happen. But it's usually a case where a child dies after a lengthy illness and the debtor is left with $1,000,000+ in medical bills after insurance has paid all it will pay or some other similar catastrophe. I get about 5-6 of those per year.

Almost all cases (at least mine) involve at least one of three factors. 1) loss of employment, 2) loss of spouse/other income provider, and 3) medical.

Student loans are the biggest obstacle in BK these days. Those are crippling.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by winebeavis

Student loans are the biggest obstacle in BK these days. Those are crippling.

People are generally not really aware of what student loans are-- they're not "just" loans for education. Rather, they're a very particular kind of loan, made under enabling Federal legislation, that is not subject to modification in bankruptcy. There are only a few kinds of debt that can't be reduced in bankruptcy, and most of them are related to some legal penalty (eg unpaid taxes). Student loans are one of the very few obligations people enter into in the normal course of affairs, which they will be unable to reduce in bankruptcy.

This is a VERY big deal, and kinda slides by in discussion -- most folks aren't really aware when they sign their "student loan" papers that its a completely different kind of obligation than, say, a car loan.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

1,000,000+ ? What ??? WOW.


That's..............

I would.............

If I had a gun...............

(please fill out the required fields)

... you might have to become a serial murderer, if you intend the worst. If what I've heard is true, you don't get just one invoice, but one from the hospital, one from the surgeon, one from the anesthetist etc etc

I hope our US friends will correct me if this is wrong, but it's said to be a very bureaucratic process, and it's no better if you do have insurance

I was reading an econ blog earlier today and learned something I hadn't heard before - apparently, even if you are insured, and even if you're on medicare, they have a component called "co-pay" and it was defined as typically 80/20, meaning the insurance pays 80% and you pay 20%. And that's not all, because you have to pay for medication as well as treatment

If that's true, it's easier to understand an obsession with money

Can anyone comment?

[ubu_roi]

80/20 is indeed the average co-pay structure here in the states. The last time I had insurance that paid 100% of my medical costs was the very early '90s.

[blueballsdc]

Originally Posted by palo5

I hope our US friends will correct me if this is wrong, but it's said to be a very bureaucratic process, and it's no better if you do have insurance

I was reading an econ blog earlier today and learned something I hadn't heard before - apparently, even if you are insured, and even if you're on medicare, they have a component called "co-pay" and it was defined as typically 80/20, meaning the insurance pays 80% and you pay 20%. And that's not all, because you have to pay for medication as well as treatment

If that's true, it's easier to understand an obsession with money

Can anyone comment?

Healthcare is a very bureaucratic process here. It is also a very profitable enterprise which is why so many people have been fighting "Obamacare".

I do have health insurance and they cover me for most things as long as you follow procedures.

I do have various copays. For a regular visit to my primary care physician (PCP) I pay a $20.00 copay per visit. My insurance covers the rest and I get no other bills for this visit from my insurance company. I know that a normal bill from my PCP is about $200.00 per visit. However, my insurance company pays about $100.00 as they discount the bill to the insurance company.

If I go see a specialist I have a copay of $30.00. This could be a cardiologist, x-ray, etc... Now, a bill from the specialist could be anywhere from $200.00 to $1,000.00 depending upon who it is and what they do. I do get copies of the bills from the specialist but, I only pay the copay and my insurance company pays about 50% off the invoice as they get discounts.

Of course, if I had to cover everything myself then there wouldn't be a discount.

There are different copays if I use the emergency room or an urgent care facility and there are different levels of copays for perscriptions.

For perscriptions they come in different "tiers". Tier 1 is the lowest and is a $10.00 copay per perscription. This is typically generic brands of medicines that have been out for a while. Tier 4 is the highest level and is $40.00 copay per perscription. This is typically for the latest/greatest name brand medicines.

One of my coworkers is on blood thinners. He pays $10.00 (tier 1) for a 30 day perscription of Warfarin Sodium becaus it has been around forever and is widely available in generic form (actually it was originally developed as a rat poison ). They tried to move him onto the newest blood thinner (can't remember the name) which would have cost him $40.00 (tier 4)for a 30 day perscription. He told his doctor that he would stay with the old generic.

The whole system is screwed up and honestly I don't know if Obamacare is really going to fix anything. However, I do support Obamacare.

[Rotzopop]

Originally Posted by blueballsdc

The whole system is screwed up and honestly I don't know if Obamacare is really going to fix anything. However, I do support Obamacare.

We have had a kind of copays so too, but they have so much money in the medical care system now, that the government decided that people don`t have to pay that money any more (it was "only" 10€ for 3 month you paid directly to your doctor).

But why do you call it "Obamacare"?
Its a little irritating, because this sounds like you don`t like the idea.

[9876543210]

deepsepia,

Originally Posted by deepsepia

People are generally not really aware of what student loans are-- they're not "just" loans for education. Rather, they're a very particular kind of loan, made under enabling Federal legislation, that is not subject to modification in bankruptcy. There are only a few kinds of debt that can't be reduced in bankruptcy, and most of them are related to some legal penalty (eg unpaid taxes). Student loans are one of the very few obligations people enter into in the normal course of affairs, which they will be unable to reduce in bankruptcy.

This is a VERY big deal, and kinda slides by in discussion -- most folks aren't really aware when they sign their "student loan" papers that its a completely different kind of obligation than, say, a car loan.

You forgot to mention a few things. First, student loans stay with you until they are payed off. So you could go through a few bankruptcies throughout your life and the student loans are unaffected. But lets say that you make it to age 65 and retire but still owe the student loans. Whoever holds the loan can take a portion of your Social Security and/or any other retirement funds you have.

Also, if anyone ever asks you to co-sign a student loan (your children?) you probably really don't want to do it. I've heard of a couple of instances lately where a child dies with these loans and the loan holder goes after the co-signer. And they are liable to pay the loan.

So you're right. These are a very different kind of loan. You cannot get rid of them until they're paid and bankruptcy won't touch them.