Current Politics in the United Kingdom - Page 561

**scoundrel** · February 20th, 2019, 10:58 PM

As I watch the developments in the House of Commons I get a strong sense of a broken clockwork toy going around in circles shedding bits of itself. We can see in the formation of the Independent Group that Labour is divided as well as the Tories - one shouldn't forget that the failed putsch against Mr Corbyn after the 2016 referendum was a rebellion of Remainer MPs against a leader known to be strongly Euro-sceptic and whose contributions to the Remain campaign had been as mealy-mouthed and unconvincing as his opposition to anti-semitism.

I am quite sure that Theresa May will not be bringing any deal to Parliament which will command a majority there. When you look at what the Labour MPs would require, for example permanent membership of the Customs Union, you'd have to reflect that instead of leaving the EU, they want us to be the gimp in the cellar. Meanwhile of course, Mrs May is using up the time. She might think that she can hold Parliament over a barrel and tell them her "deal" is all there is, and we'll leave with no deal otherwise. I don't believe that dog will fight - I think they'll vote it down and we will leave with no deal. Having seen what Mrs May's deal looks like I am OK with no deal as a better option.

I can't yet see how Mrs May will be removed, but I am reasonably sure she will go soon after we leave. Come next December she can get a new confidence vote and her chances of surviving that seem remote. She could just resign shortly after the leave date passes but I dont get the sense from her that she would merely do the decent thing.

Once Britain has definitively left the EU I will watch the Independent Group with interest. Provided that we definitively leave, then their Remain views will be yesterdays news. But a revival of centrist politics would potentially be a good thing - so I will watch them and reflect.

**palo5** · February 21st, 2019, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I agree with Joan Ryan if in fact she did say that anti-semitism is a racist thing - it certainly is racism

With respect, I disagree, and I don't buy into anyone's "race theories". Anti-semiticism is religious and ethnic hatred

**palo5** · February 21st, 2019, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendigo

I suspect however there is no trick that those who are continuing with Project Fear...

"Project fear"!

Well, when your top Brexiters go from "It will be a titanic success" to "It won't be as bad as Mad Max" it doesn't sound encouraging. Looks like they're moving their optimism from sky-high to below-ground level

Maybe it's the "Dunkirk spirit". Maybe it has to be, because I can't remember any civilized country being threatened with medicine & food shortages in peacetime before. I sure hope it doesn't get so bad, but I certainly think you will be diminished in almost every respect

**hoss** · February 21st, 2019, 05:20 PM

If there is a "Project Fear", it is the pro-Brexit campaign, fighting against imagined threats from south of the Channel.

**palo5** · February 21st, 2019, 05:27 PM

I'm reminded the British drink a lot of tea, but don't produce any themselves. If there isn't enough for everyone, will they fight for it?

What about coffee?

**hoss** · February 21st, 2019, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

I'm reminded the British drink a lot of tea, but don't produce any themselves. If there isn't enough for everyone, will they fight for it?

What about coffee?

The Brits will compensate the rising prices of tea and coffee by their gains on the world porridge market.

**Wendigo** · February 21st, 2019, 05:42 PM

As outsiders looking in on Britain you can feel free to carry on and dismiss what I say but the fact is ... and it is a fact that you can repeatedly ignore if you want but throughout the entire Brexit episode you would struggle to find positive points being made about the EU by the Remain leaders.

The earlier pro-Brexit figureheads like Boris and Farage weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer but it's an indictment of the pitiful leadership of Remain that they failed to counter them and put forward plus points about the EU prior to the referendum.

It's all been about impending disaster and as I say after their predictions about the collapse of the UK in the immediate aftermath of us voting Leave I find it very hard to take the seemingly never ending series of catastrophe around the corner claims seriously. It's the boy who cried wolf scenario writ large and you will never find anywhere where I have said I believe it will be straightforward and I do believe that we will have many issues to face post March 29th.

**seany65** · February 21st, 2019, 05:53 PM

Posted by Mal Hombre:

"The English are the Master race..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

As we see from your soccer team

Comrade Palo, you do understand that we really are the master race, but we're so polite about it we deliberately invent games the world plays that we aren't any good at in order to cheer everyone else up 'cos they are so miserable that they weren't born English?

**palo5** · February 21st, 2019, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendigo

As outsiders looking in on Britain you can feel free to carry on and dismiss what I say but the fact is ... and it is a fact that you can repeatedly ignore if you want but throughout the entire Brexit episode you would struggle to find positive points being made about the EU by the Remain leaders

Indeed, we're told they didn't say much because they thought they'd win. They thought people would know the benefits of the EU and relied on common-sense. Didn't work, as we see. The people must have known less than they thought

Oh well. 34 days to go. Soon you'll know if your pilots can fly, your drivers can drive, and if tea imports are still easy

**Wendigo** · February 21st, 2019, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

Indeed, we're told they didn't say much because they thought they'd win. They thought people would know the benefits of the EU and relied on common-sense. Didn't work, as we see.

They were and still are crass incompetent morons then as any idiot could have looked at the results of the EU elections in the UK over the last 20 years and seen the pretty obvious rise of an anti EU backlash. A sensible campaign would have countered the anti-EU movement and concentrated on whatever plus points they felt more strongly backed up their case. They chose not to and they only have themselves to blame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

Oh well. 34 days to go. Soon you'll know if your pilots can fly, your drivers can drive, and if tea imports are still easy

We will see won't we

February 20th, 2019, 10:58 PM	#5601
scoundrel Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: England Posts: 26,268 Thanks: 162,490 Thanked 278,849 Times in 26,213 Posts	As I watch the developments in the House of Commons I get a strong sense of a broken clockwork toy going around in circles shedding bits of itself. We can see in the formation of the Independent Group that Labour is divided as well as the Tories - one shouldn't forget that the failed putsch against Mr Corbyn after the 2016 referendum was a rebellion of Remainer MPs against a leader known to be strongly Euro-sceptic and whose contributions to the Remain campaign had been as mealy-mouthed and unconvincing as his opposition to anti-semitism. I am quite sure that Theresa May will not be bringing any deal to Parliament which will command a majority there. When you look at what the Labour MPs would require, for example permanent membership of the Customs Union, you'd have to reflect that instead of leaving the EU, they want us to be the gimp in the cellar. Meanwhile of course, Mrs May is using up the time. She might think that she can hold Parliament over a barrel and tell them her "deal" is all there is, and we'll leave with no deal otherwise. I don't believe that dog will fight - I think they'll vote it down and we will leave with no deal. Having seen what Mrs May's deal looks like I am OK with no deal as a better option. I can't yet see how Mrs May will be removed, but I am reasonably sure she will go soon after we leave. Come next December she can get a new confidence vote and her chances of surviving that seem remote. She could just resign shortly after the leave date passes but I dont get the sense from her that she would merely do the decent thing. Once Britain has definitively left the EU I will watch the Independent Group with interest. Provided that we definitively leave, then their Remain views will be yesterdays news. But a revival of centrist politics would potentially be a good thing - so I will watch them and reflect. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

February 21st, 2019, 05:42 PM	#5607
Wendigo Former Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Blighty Posts: 113,909 Thanks: 260,014 Thanked 1,140,613 Times in 114,027 Posts	As outsiders looking in on Britain you can feel free to carry on and dismiss what I say but the fact is ... and it is a fact that you can repeatedly ignore if you want but throughout the entire Brexit episode you would struggle to find positive points being made about the EU by the Remain leaders. The earlier pro-Brexit figureheads like Boris and Farage weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer but it's an indictment of the pitiful leadership of Remain that they failed to counter them and put forward plus points about the EU prior to the referendum. It's all been about impending disaster and as I say after their predictions about the collapse of the UK in the immediate aftermath of us voting Leave I find it very hard to take the seemingly never ending series of catastrophe around the corner claims seriously. It's the boy who cried wolf scenario writ large and you will never find anywhere where I have said I believe it will be straightforward and I do believe that we will have many issues to face post March 29th. __________________ RIP Doctor Who To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 23 November 1963 to 25 December 2017, sacrificed on the altar of identity politics. The show is dead to me, but my DVD's live on If you can re-up dead links please consider adding this to your signature. It helps when looking at reports of dead posts. Please PM me re any dead images although it is likely if it is outside Celebs I may no longer have the content

February 21st, 2019, 05:20 PM	#5604
hoss Vintage Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: I have a farm in cloud cuckoo land Posts: 3,479 Thanks: 19,973 Thanked 26,566 Times in 3,467 Posts	If there is a "Project Fear", it is the pro-Brexit campaign, fighting against imagined threats from south of the Channel.

February 21st, 2019, 05:27 PM	#5605
palo5 Former Staff Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16,579 Thanks: 452,836 Thanked 222,663 Times in 16,567 Posts	I'm reminded the British drink a lot of tea, but don't produce any themselves. If there isn't enough for everyone, will they fight for it? What about coffee?