Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by ********

In other words you admit defeat, as you have no response that isn't reliant on the basic premise that the EU is evil.

Yet another nonsensical lurch into the dark, I don't think anyone here ever said the EU was evil We just see things differently.
It is simply that the British people believe we are capable enough to govern ourselves as an independent nation. What a weird concept eh !

[chupachups]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Yet another nonsensical lurch into the dark, I don't think anyone here ever said the EU was evil We just see things differently.
It is simply that the British people believe we are capable enough to govern ourselves as an independent nation. What a weird concept eh !

not evil...not yet...but ruled (yes, ruled) by a bunch of unelected, self serving political elites that are completely divorced from the average person on the street

they have a grand plan of federal union and will allow no-one to get in the way, because the prize at the end game is to be able to rule with impunity having convinced the sheeple of the EU to willingly give up their democracy...

they will rule with an iron fist (panzerfaust), and send in the EU army to any remote corner of the empire where there may be dissent or talk of secession

it is funny we talk about uncle joe on this thread, because the EU is staging a (relatively) bloodless revolution, and we in the UK will be treated like the kulaks of the ukraine...

the big difference is that unlike the kulaks, the UK has teeth and will not allow the EU to impose a new holodomor on us, if they try, they may find their little undemocratic experiment overthrown and their empire crumble due to our partisan efforts

if you think the analogy suspect...ask yourself who will be uncle joe after junckers ? barmier perhaps ? who will vote for him ? no-one ? how will he get into the role of president of the european council ... by seeing the UK punished for brexit ? who in the EU authorised that vindictive agenda ? seems not the irish nor the dutch ? just who runs the EU and how is policy made...certainly not by the EU serfs

[chupachups]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

After all the silly posts from the remainers, here is my silly post in response..

I think the mistake the british made was to allow the french a political voice during and at the end of WW2...

afterall, the french caused ww2 due to their vindictiveness at the end of WW1 imposing the punishing terms of the treaty of versailles. Having surrendered in 1940, they were a crushed and conquered peoples. But little did we know that despite liberating them in 1944, by 1960 they had joined forces with germany in a plan for european political domination hidden behind the veil of a common economic community

the british keep saving europe from domination (napolean, ww1, ww2), and all we get in return is hard brexit...

next time we save europe from domination, I say we take over and prevent any more silliness from europe, they won't be ruled from brussels, but from london...

(in my best john cleese voice) you europeans will be forced to drink warm pints...measure distance in miles...food by the lb...reduce the amount of cocoa in your chocolate, and meat in your sausages...we will take away your beach towels, make frogs and snails endangered species...suck on that thought...or give us a brexit that both sides can be happy with

and don't think you are safe in switzerland...we will ban neatness, tidiness and cuckoo clocks

[chupachups]

I love bbc qt, the only tv I ever watch these days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se241I3a7Vo

This episode is interesting as it was before the referendum...well worth watching in hindsight


as an aside, just in case they forget...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sidaA8W0m00

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Moko said, Unlikely. The subsidy cost will stay the same unless you want British farming to collapse. And the promise of cheaper food is mostly just fantasy. Do you really think milk from New Zealand is going to be fresh and cheap after it's been ship from the other side of the planet?


Before we joined the EU we were self sufficient in all milk products. After years of meddling by the Commission we now have to import something like 20% of our milk (by EU law) whilst British Milk producers have gone out of business.

I have a good friend who is in the business and he voted in because he wanted stability. He thinks that in the long term we will be better off out, and believes that the only people to blame for the out vote were the Commissioners.

Once upon a time we had something called "The Milk Marketing Board". It guaranteed a minimum price to milk farmers and created a stable market. One has to remember that cows yield milk at a fairly constant rate but that demand is both unpredictable and easily manipulated by dominant customers, in this case mainly the supermarkets. In the absence of the MMB, the supermarkets were able to depress the price for farmers by 40% almost within weeks; and the price of milk did not fall 40% for shoppers. This "reform" was part of the neo-liberal philosophy so loved by Margaret Thatcher; it was not imposed by the EU.

The moral of the story?

Good government is not guaranteed just because we are going to leave the EU. We still have to get our own arses in gear and follow a path based on simple principles, such as "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

RIP Milk Marketing Board.

[haroldeye]

Wow. Along with the map that's some imperialist bullshit right there.

And talk about lack of self awareness. Brexit is all about self determination and sovereignty, but the British empire was great.


Point one. That map is very inaccurate.
Point two. In case you hadn't noticed the Empire went some time ago.
Point three. Bosnia, Kosovo and the Ukraine. Yup got that one right.

In between trying to conquer it of course. Let's not pretend we weren't part of Europe's problems back then. You blame France for the punishment of Germany after WW1, but the UK was demanding reparations too.

English and then British foreign policy since Queen Elizabeth 1 has been to ensure that no European state can ally with any others, or conquer any others in such a way that they would be able to threaten British security. The British have not tried to conquer Europe, merely made sure that no one else did. We were not part of the problem, we were the solution.

[haroldeye]

Scounds - I will ask him for comment on your post the next time we have a beer, but this might interest you.

http://www.stuartagnewmep.co.uk/imag...MB%20paper.pdf

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Once upon a time we had something called "The Milk Marketing Board". It guaranteed a minimum price to milk farmers and created a stable market. One has to remember that cows yield milk at a fairly constant rate but that demand is both unpredictable and easily manipulated by dominant customers, in this case mainly the supermarkets. In the absence of the MMB, the supermarkets were able to depress the price for farmers by 40% almost within weeks; and the price of milk did not fall 40% for shoppers. This "reform" was part of the neo-liberal philosophy so loved by Margaret Thatcher; it was not imposed by the EU.

The moral of the story?

Good government is not guaranteed just because we are going to leave the EU. We still have to get our own arses in gear and follow a path based on simple principles, such as "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

RIP Milk Marketing Board.

In Germany too, I can perfectly confirm the post of scound for here !

There was a stable marked for milk and milk - products with guaranteed prices for farmers.
Butter -for example- was never cheap here but had more or less a stable price. Butter was used as a buffer for the milk production at this time. We had huge governmental deep-freeze lager where the overproduction with butter was stored. Only on the Christmas time butter was cheaper and the lager got emptied. Butter here had an official stamp on the packaging.
Somewhere in the early 90th this was finished, we send that overproduction in tons of weight to Russia, because of their shops were empty (also of vodka ) and the Russians were starving in the bigger towns. This was still accepted by the overwhelming majority here.
After that it was suddenly finished. Milk and butter prices were floating and I can remember the first protests of our farmers.
The reason because it was finished suddenly I unfortunately can't remember any more. I haven't seen that stamp on the butter packaging for a long time.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

A few points arising from a single glance at your map, Xyzde69.

1. The first British settlement in Australia was made at Port Jackson, New South Wales, in 1788. New Zealand did not see permanent British setllements until the 1860s.
   
2. In 1774 most of India, including all of what is now Pakistan was either ruled by Indian princes or controlled by Portugal and France.
   
3. Burma (Myanmar as it calls itself nowadays) was an independent kingdom. Malaya (Malaysia) was a patchwork of petty monarchies in 1774, just like Germany.
   
4. The Arabian peninsula, Iraq (Mesopotamia as then was), Israel and Jordan, Egypt and the Sudan were part of something called the Ottoman Empire in 1774.
   
5. Most of South Africa had not yet been colonised by Europeans and such of it as had been was mainly controlled by Holland. The Afrikaaners are descended from Dutch settlers. Most of the rest of Africa had not been settled at all. Large parts of it weren't even explored yet. But quite a few independent African kingdoms were earning good money by selling Africans into slavery in 1774.
   
6. Malta was governed autocratically and rather corruptly by the so-called Knights of St John until Napoleon anchored in Valletta harbour in 1798 and his expeditionary force interrupted mass at Valletta cathedral in order to seize the communion plate and the gold rood screens. The Knights of St John valiantly ran away without fighting (Bold Sir Robin) and abandoned the Maltese to be oppressed by their Napoleonic liberators. Within weeks, Lord Nelson sank Napoleon's fleet at Aboukir Bay and the Maltese, realising that the garrison left behind by Napoleon was now isolated, rose against them. Captain Alexander Ball sailed into the harbour in October 1798 and started a blockade which ultimately starved the French out in 1800. The Maltese did not want the valiant Knights of St John back again and weren't keen to be ruled by the somewhat Caligula-like Kingdom of Naples either, and so the love-hate relationship between Malta and Britain began - in 1798.

Based on the above, I conclude that this is an unreliable map.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

guaranteed prices for farmers.

Tell me why farmers , or anyone else for that matter, should get guaranteed prices?