Ecadysiology: (Burlesquevs Stiptease vs Neoburlesque vs Exotic Dancing)- A comparison.

[Tucsoncoyote]

Hello again,

In my last post which can be found here, The discussion of the topic was basically how Today's sex magazines compared to the old days.

This time however we're going to compare 4 different variations of what is know as ecadysiology, or the study of how a woman sheds her skin (As the Great Gypsy Rose Lee once said. In short, Strippers.

There's a lot of difference between the shows of the 1930's and 1940's to those of the 1950's and 1960's to the shows of the sexual revolution which started in the 1970's and eventually turned into two major forms today.. but in reality it's 4..

The first of course is none other than good old fashion burlesque. Now Burlesque is basically a phrase which involves a ribald comedy show and was often confused with vaudebille. The only difference here is that with burlesque, the shows actually not only had the comedy slapstick of vaudbille but in addition to this, the acts of ladies disrobing in front of a general audience, and yes there were women in the audience as well as men.. so really this was more of an act of actually having women undress for the guys while the ladies looked on in jealousy wondering how on earth they could compete with the likes of the ecadysiast (or stripper)

Initially this first part actually lasted into the 1950's when things started to change. Once the 1960's rolled around, Burlesque was in a way dead, and the art of striptease/totaly nude stripping was underway. Clubs that offered Topless, bottomless and totally nude sprung up everywhere, and most often times in the oddest of places.. I mean I remember one time when my parents and I were driving along a major city street that wasn't in a red light district, and seeing a bar offering totally nude women. (This is probably why I got into the study of ecadysiology).

But the thing is, With the shows becoming more and more daring and less and less left to the imagination, the local officials decided that such things lead to promiscous things like of course Prostitution, and drug use. this in turn lead to crime, and soon city ordinances were in place limiting some clubs on how far they could go. (And this also fared not only on whether the establishment served liquor or not, as well as how much was left on. Topless was of course without the burlesque pasties, Bottomless without the scanty G-string, and of course total nude is self explanitory.)

Of course a lot of places in the states here were constantly being raided, for obscenity violations and liquor law violations.. and some establishments here in the states did close down due to these violations.. BHut others found ways to get around the problem, even if it involved not seriving ligquor at all (A note of fact.. In Colorado, here in the states, the legality of nudity in a club is whether you do or don't serve alcohol.. if you do, you can only go topless, if you served wine coolers, you might get the tops off, but if you served ice cream sundaes? Then anything went.. including the G-string and pasties.

But as times went on a lot of stirp joints and clubs went the way of the dinosaur. Again unlike the older burlesque these classy clubs and theaters turned into seedy beds of sin..(Ned we not forget the Michell Bros. O'Farrell Theater in San Francsico that went totally nude, and even had sex acts on stage.. all in front of a mostly male audience..

Now granted Today's strip clubs are and are not like the old clubs and theaters are not like the old times of yesterdayr.. Today's clubs have the fear of sexually transmitted disease run into them... namely the fact that here in the states we have the No Touchy feely fule. (That means no touching, or giving sex. Period..) It's sort of like a You can look but not touch phrase. And then of course is the "Can't be totally nude, but you gotta leave the shoes on bit.." (Again for health and safety reasons.)

But again today's rules are intermingled with the rules of yesteryear, and those rules have become somewhat muddled..

And some of the places where the girls are great.. Others are seedy dives that depict those lawless days where drugs, and ex ruled the air.. Some places are so bad, you could sweat that someone demped a swer in the place, and the women are not that attractive as some are just drg users looking for a quick fix, or some hooker wanting a cheap trick.

But other clubs are spectacular and well kept, the lighring is good, the stages are immaculate, and the women? Hot.. As in mucho Caliente hot..

But with the old days gone by you think that Burlesque would be all but dead.. But if you look on Youtube and just do a search for burlesque and burlesque festivals and even burlesque strippers, you see a wide variance in how the women look, act, and even portray themselves on the stage.. (A good search would be, New Orleasns Burlesque (as every year in the last 3 years they have had some of the best 'neo-burlesque' dancers around.. some of them hot, some not.. Some raunchy, (complete with tattoos), others not, (And some even a little bit busty while others are fat... in short a wide variety of women.. for every man's taste..

But while Neo-burlesqaue appeals to mens tastes, so do some of the sturp clubs today appeal to women as well (so in a sense we've come full circle, as if you listen to a lot of videos, it's not the men giving out the wolf whistles, it's the women as well)

So really, when you look at burlesque vs, neo-burlesque vs. the modern strip club/nudie bar, it all boils down to one thing.. Exotic Dancing.. and when we say exotic, we mean everything from the classy to the trashy.. From the graceful popledance to the dirty pole dance (and yes even the graceful pole dance, as well, as some women are taking the stirpper pole, and turning it into a work of art and athletic fitness.)

In short, what seperates each of these apart? What makes them similar yet different? What makes one look classy and the other trashy? Is it the style of music chosen from sultry jazz to heavy metal? Is it the clothes the dancers wear, such as classy gloves and gowns to the short micro skirt and bikini tops and micro thong bikini bottoms? Is it the fashionable high heels or the bad girl biker boots? or is it the daring corsets trimmed with lace? or the vinyl PVC wear? And what about ehuse of props? Like Fans, Bubbles, and yes even whips, studded bracelets, and dar i say it, tattoos and body piercings..

I mean when you look at all the variations of a woman taking off their clothese there's a lot of wide variances here, and most of it is in regards to health, safety and in fact style.. and who it appeals to the most..(Granted we do have the male strippers as well for the ladies, and they too are in a similar boat..)

so the uqestion is.. where does it all begin? With a sultry look or a bad girl look? Where does it all end? At pasties and a G-string? Just a microthong, or maybe a scanty garter string on the leg with Biker boots?

See this is why we have variety today.. we have 3 major variants lumped into a larger 4th form (Called Exotic Dancing). The real question is.. how do we discern bet weern this? Or has the art of removing clothes for the enjoyment of the public really become blurred today?

Also when did stirpping begn? Some say as early as 1890, others say even later around 1910, and even others arue that ecadysiology began around the late 20's and early 30's ..

I'll open this didcusssion up with 3 final comments, and they all come for the grand lady of burlesque, and stirppping, Miss Gypsy Rose lee


Firs she says, "Bui I'm not a stripper...I'm an ecadysiast!"

and second she said this:

“If a thing is worth doing,it is worth doing slowly ."

and the final comment?

"Make them beg, and then tease them a little more.. even slower.."
very slowly.”

So now then.. time to discuss, and let's be open on all this. after all in a strip club, everything goes, (or rather almost everything does!)

Tucsoncoyote--

[Fantazmaster]

Great job on this ,Tusconcoyote.Yes,I especially liked the explanation on the difference between burlesque and vaudeville.I had understood that burlesque
really got popular after WWI,as many of the returning dough boys had gotten a look at this sort of entertainment in Paris,both during and in the weeks and months following WWI.These dough boys had lots of idle time after the November 11th,1918 Armistice and while waiting to get back on the ship,these doughboys got to see quite a variety of the more elaborate and risque Paris shows,It was a natural for these same doughboys to want to see more of this sort of entertainment,in the years after they came back to the USA.

[Greenman]

I am pretty sure this was discussed on the Striptease thread but the main difference between Burlesque & Vaudeville was that you could be arrested once for Burlesque if you showed any bare flesh-I refer you to the film, 'The Night they raided Minskys" where towards the end the police surround the theatre as Britt Ekland almost bares all in a striptease. It was mostly called Music Hall here and one spoken rather than movement risque performance was by a woman called Marie Lloyd. She sang a song called 'She Sits Amongst the Cabbages and Peas" which was changed to Leaks!! How times have changed. My interpretation of Burlesque v Striptease is no boobs are allowed to be exposed in Burlesque, yet any goes in Striptease. Confusing I grant you.

[Sir Spender]

I agree Greenman, & to be fair, the topic is well discussed in the Traditional Striptease thread.
Most of us are here because modern day lap-dancing/pole dancing, just doesn`t have the glamour, excitement or sheer eroticism of the old fashioned striptease shows.

[Tucsoncoyote]

Well Greenman, when you look at Burlesque there are really today two version of Burlesque; One is of course Like you pointed out the Traditional Burlesque (or Striptease, while the second is in fact the New Burlesque scene or what is called "Neo-Burlesque". What's the difference? Not a lot, and a lot . Let' me explain.
same
"Neo (or New) Burlesque is basically using the same formula that the Old school style did, with the girls stripping down to pasties ad a G-String, (and if the law allowed it, totally nude). Some of todays' Neo-Burlesque Artises Like Coco Electric, Immodesty Blaze, Michell L'Amour, and even Perle Noire, use the same formularic music (Usually jazz or swing), to stirp to. In Miss L'Amour's case, her best Traditionl striptease, is in fact her "Snow White" Routine where she takes a bite out of the Poison Apple, says, "I don't feel so good," and then strips down to a tiny G-String that accentuates her main attraction , namely her sexy bubble butt. (That's why some people call her the Ass that goes POW!

But then you got some other strippers that are less than steller and they don't use the Traditional Music.. They use the more modern Rock and even heavy rock, and strip down like the afforementioned counterparts but usually giving us the same routine..

Then you got what we call the real Strippers and Lapdancers. These girl will strip down usually to a bikini thong, and will use the "No touchy Feely Rule. ) Which means if you are gonna cop a feel for these girls it'll get you immediately ejected from a club faster then melted butter.. But the Girls can grind their body all over you, provided you don't decide to whip it out..

Then comes the final group, the Pole Dancers.. and this is divided into two groups.. One are definitely strippers the others are gymnasts..

The Strippers strip down giving us a good look at them (in a thong or totally nude, and do the dirty dancing and bumping and grinding against the Metal Pole.. Others do strip down and do the sam thing but leave their top on.. I short you can have it one of three ways, Topless, Bottomless, or complete nude..

But so of the pole dancer athletes use the pole in a more creative way.. Some do strip down a little, but wear something like a leotard or a bikini ensemble but they don't bump and grind like their Stripper sisters do.. They actually use the pole to do acrobatics of a different sort.. and some of these tricks aren't the bump and grind it against the metal poe.. They actually perform gymnastics.

It's also interesting to note while some girls who are true trippers /poledancers bump and grind, the art of Poledancing is actually becoming more and more a sport or a competition rather than just a sex act..
Just recently I read in an article of a poledancer who is trying to get Poledancing into the 2012 or 2016 Summer Olympics.. Ass an actual competition. In it the poledancer claims that it's really nothing ore than stirpping, but with the clothes on, and with thm performing gymnastic style routines to music that is classical or even 'Bouncy" (Much like the gymnastic routines we see in the Olympic Routines. And yes, someof teh girls do use the rock and Heavy Rock Motif too.. But still That in itself is a seperate issue as well..

All of these lines become blurred when you take them and actually look at them together.. and it's simmply four simple rules..

1. The girls strip down.. Period. but the blur is rather how far they go, leotard, bikini, topless (with / without pasties, or completely au natural.

2. Lap dancing is nothing more than an up close bump and grind literally, while The rest are at a distance.. and the former really is nothing more than
get in your face kind of action. You can look but not touch.. The second is really you can look, and not touch too, but you're looking at a distance.

3. The music. Let's face it.. Burlesque and Neo Burlesque use the typical stirpper music of the old days.. Namely jazz and swing.. and maybe a little classical as well. The blurr though is that Burlesque itself used jazz and swing only. nothing else.. Neo burlesque uses Jazz, swing, classical, and even Rock and heavy rock.. and in some instances hip-hop/Rap.

4 and finally all of them with the excptions of Pole Dancing and Lap dancing are in fact still the stame.. It's the art of the tease..

Though the latter towl (Lap/pole) actually go all the way, with the others stopping at a pair of pasties, and a G-string (Only rare occurance was when Tempest Storm and Tali De Mar, went totally nude and in Miss Mar's case.. She even used ice cream as a prop, whilee Tempest did the old fur muff routine..(I mean show it all ) The only difference here is Tempest had muff. Tali doesn't...

So really the question is.. Where do all these forms come into place?

The answer is simple. They're all forms of stripping and a term called 'exotic dancing' . I like to use the last term cause it's really all of the above.. There's really no difference except if you rub it in a guy's face, Grind or perform gymnastics on a ploe, or just take it off and leave the audience begging for more, or showing all the goods..

And that is really what Strippingis all about.. It's about the variety of the way girl;s go..Do they use the more traditional gown and glove trick? Or the PVC bad biker babe trick?

and the motiffs are really the girl's chocie not the viewers.. one night she could play snow white..
The next? She could play Jessica Rabbit.. And others can play the goth.. completel with the candle wax and the pins and needles..(ewwww).

but the bottom line you have to put them into one category.. Exotic Dancing. not stripping, but rather the way the girls perform.. after all this is dancing that is truly exotic.

TucsonCoyote

[Greenman]

Which is probably why I didn't mention Neo-Burlesque because I have never heard of it nor seen, unless you include Dita von Teese in that?

[Tucsoncoyote]

Originally Posted by Greenman

Which is probably why I didn't mention Neo-Burlesque because I have never heard of it nor seen, unless you include Dita von Teese in that?

Well Greenman, Neo-burlesque (Or New Burlesque) is still burlesque. It's only that in the last few years it's made burlesque stripping come into vogue..

And yes, Miss Dita Von Tease is part of that group..

So is Michelle L'Amour.. (Michelle is one of the dancers who helped bring it to the forefront when she got to do her Snow White routine on the TV show America's Got Talent..

And it's not only her, there are other dancers out there. Ruby Joule, Cheery Typhoon, Perle Noire, Kitty on the keys.. The list goes on and on..(Heck, just type Burlesque, festival, new orleans, or even Longo, vancouver, Toronto, New York, Kansas City, or even any city's name.. and you will find a ton of video clips of these women showing it for the video camera..

Even Tali De Mar has a few out on You Tube.. And in one case she removed the pasties and the G-string.. and went all the way...complete with ice cream..

The thing is.. Neoburlesque is a rather fine issue.. It's not like the dancers / pole dancers/lap dancers of today.. Rather it's the new burlesque.. The way to tease the audiences (both Men and women), to show the public that at one time, stripping (or ecadysiology) is all about..

After all exotic dancing today is more about the strip than the tease.. it's about just taking it off grinind your butt or crotch against the pole and ask for a few tips..

But Neo burlesque today seems to have no money attached to it.. it's for the entertainment of the masses.. not just a select few..

It's all about the tease.. and the sexy performance..to show how to act classy.. As for the regular dancers in most strip clubs today, the show has in a way become more seedy, and a little bit less classy..

I guess that's where the differences are.. it's more like Burlesque is classy and exotic dancing modern stripping isn't.. Neo burlesque is the dividing line..
you can still be classy and take off the clothes.. and you aren't working for the drugs or sex.. but rather for the enjoyment of being the exhibitionist you are..

I think that might be the answer.. but if not, then it still blurs the line of where one form of dancing ends, and another begins..

Tucsoncoyote--