What was the earliest X rated (explicit spread shots) photography?

[deepsepia]

Looking at the vintage photography threads, it seems that it was all "figure" shots-- eg what would be "R rated" in a movie today.

I remember seeing Hustler for the first time-- my first exposure to full spread erotica, though I'm sure that wasn't the first that it had been published.

What's the history here? Even today, genitalia are forbidden in Japanese porn -- how did standards for explicit porn evolve elsewhere?

[solarbear]

In the US, there were private camera clubs that were prolly doing spread shots in the big citys like NY and Chicago (before LA even had a viable water system) the spider pool in LA came close, but i would believe The legend Bettie Page would be the first. I think she was dragged in front of Congress because of that and her BDSM spreads.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by solarbear

In the US, there were private camera clubs that were prolly doing spread shots in the big citys like NY and Chicago (before LA even had a viable water system) the spider pool in LA came close, but i would believe The legend Bettie Page would be the first. I think she was dragged in front of Congress because of that and her BDSM spreads.

"Spider pool" ? Didn't know anything about that

And Bettie Page x-rated material? I didn't know about that, associated her only with Irving Klaw bondage stuff.

[Edit] wow, Solarbear, thank you for that reference to Spider Pool"! This deserves a thread here, what a great story, and some beautiful vintage girls (though with my limited Googling, I can't find any of these shots that are hard X explicit, everything I can find is cheesecake or r rated. . .

[solarbear]

i was thinking that x rated meant legs spread, veal peaking through the pubes. Bettie was never shy about doing frontal nudity, because her bush was just that, obstructing the labia. But while in new york, she was seduced via alcohol by some camera club to do leg spread shots, I think that theme was illegal in her day, also her irving klaw BDSM shoots was what landed her in front of some congressional committee in DC. Yes. the spider pool is a wonderful archive...rich quality images for black and white.. I think Harold Lloyd the actor was one of the camera men. The models i can think of right off that were in the spider pool archive are sandra nash and debbie westmore. i think there may have been a dozen more. The Spider Pool archive is definitely autonomous thread candidate material. I remember one model, michelle angelo, she was in the cusp of the transition between r rated bush only shots and x-rated spread leg shots, I think somewhere in the middle to late 1960s it became mainstream and/or legal to do the spread legs. i can still remember her face when she was in a full pussy photo, she looked like she was afraid of getting jailed for obscenity.

[cginok]

Originally Posted by solarbear

i was thinking that x rated meant legs spread, veal peaking through the pubes. Bettie was never shy about doing frontal nudity, because her bush was just that, obstructing the labia. But while in new york, she was seduced via alcohol by some camera club to do leg spread shots, I think that theme was illegal in her day, also her irving klaw BDSM shoots was what landed her in front of some congressional committee in DC. Yes. the spider pool is a wonderful archive...rich quality images for black and white.. I think Harold Lloyd the actor was one of the camera men. The models i can think of right off that were in the spider pool archive are sandra nash and debbie westmore. i think there may have been a dozen more. The Spider Pool archive is definitely autonomous thread candidate material. I remember one model, michelle angelo, she was in the cusp of the transition between r rated bush only shots and x-rated spread leg shots, I think somewhere in the middle to late 1960s it became mainstream and/or legal to do the spread legs. i can still remember her face when she was in a full pussy photo, she looked like she was afraid of getting jailed for obscenity.

I saw an interview once with Irving Klaws sister, can't remember her name. I think she was also in some of the BDSM photo shoots Bettie did. She's the keeper of the photo library, or archive, whatever you want to call it, that she and her brother accumulated over the years. She "hinted" that there are, or were, photos of Bettie that have never been seen, and will never be seen. And I do remember Bettie telling about the spread legged photos you mentioned. She said they got her drunk, she also mentioned that she had never drank much in her life before that night, so it didn't take much to get her loosened up. Bettie said she was ashamed of those pics, and some of the things she did that night. That was, potentially, kind of a cryptic comment I thought. Like what else did she do that night, besides have pictures taken of her, that she would be ashamed of? Now putting both of those things together, it makes me wonder if there aren't, or were and they were destroyed, pics of Bettie blowing/fucking some guys that night. I could be reading too much into it, I'm fairly certain that we'll never know for sure.

[Mad Koala Bear]

Probably the day after photography was invented

[smiksmaksmok]

Originally Posted by damp-patch

Probably the day after photography was invented

Or perhaps it was the reason they invented photography.

Some 1920-1930 epic spreads. (Althought they weren't published in a magasine)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b055a6dab22c51

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by smiksmaksmok

Or perhaps it was the reason they invented photography.

Some 1920-1930 epic spreads. (Althought they weren't published in a magasine)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b055a6dab22c51

Very interesting.

See, the thing is that painted -- or more often-- drawn erotica had always been explicit, you can find plenty of 18th century printed books, particularly in France, showing ancien regime rogerings. But when the camera comes along, for the most part stuff remains rather chaste-- there are nudes, but few genuine sex acts to be seen.

Your example is the first date I've seen . . .

[ponky]

Originally Posted by solarbear

i was thinking that x rated meant legs spread, veal peaking through the pubes. Bettie was never shy about doing frontal nudity, because her bush was just that, obstructing the labia. But while in new york, she was seduced via alcohol by some camera club to do leg spread shots, I think that theme was illegal in her day, also her irving klaw BDSM shoots was what landed her in front of some congressional committee in DC.

I read about that but never saw such pics of Bettie. Actually, I have some candidates, even maybe too much of them.

[solarbear]

Excellent. Those are the BP images i was thinking about, illegal in her time. I was just thinking about here in the US, i know in other places, as stated above, ever since the camera technology was established ...i mean DeGuerroType level...and before that, ever since there could be recordable painting., I would reason to believe we are art enthusiasts...One pundit once stated, "It is art if it moves you"...i see images of Michelle Webber, i feel moved , i think.. on another note, wasn't edmund leja the photographer doing some pussy shots before there was an established legitimacy? like before 1966?