The First World War

[richardoe]

Im just watching a documentary on BBC1 about Simon Weston. Their showing pictures from wwi of "before and after" pictures from victims of facial injuries of wwi.

[Mad_Hatter]

I have long found uniforms of wars to be fascinating. And to see how they progressed from formal looking outfits in bright colors to more durable and practical uniforms. One particular area of interest to me is the helmets of the Great War. As someone mentioned, at the beginning of the war, no side had headgear ready for a modern war. The United States still used the "Smokey the Bear" or "Lemon Squeezer" felt hat, too. Luckily the powers in charge did realize this, and came up with newer helmets, instead of holding on to outmoded traditional headgear.

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

I think one of the problems our generation has, is that we sort of forget how old we are! In the sixties, many of the pensioners we saw, and took for granted had probably served in the Great War, in fact as I was born in the mid fifties, there were still men of working age, who would have served, most of our parents, and definitely our grand parents, would have served in at least one of the wars.

When I did my board in 1973, the full colonel who was on the board wore Second World War medal ribbons, he would have been in his late fifties, and without doubt, all those senior to him, would also have been veterans. The Wars were that close to our time. Now I am considered a bit of a freak, because I wear medal ribbons dating from the late seventies (General Service Medal, Northern Ireland) and the early eighties (South Atlantic Medal). In factr I was once challenged at a Remembrance Parade, because of the breadth of my years service, the General Staff Badge on my beret helped me prove my point, sadly I have been in that long, and even sadder I am that bloody old!

I did my POSB in 1979-and on the board were Colonels and a Brigadier who all saw service in Korea. During my basic training the NCO were generally Vietnam veterans, and as a young officer (in the early 80s) I was in awe of Col Bill French-the honorary Col of 4th Otago-Southland Bn-who had been commissioned in NZ at the outbreak of WW2, had to resign his commission to get overseas in the 2NZEF (he went as a Sgt) was recommissioned in North Africa (the recipients were known as 'retreads') fought at Cassino, and finally retired in the eighties after 55 years of service in the NZ army.
.....and I though my 32-1/2 years wasn't a bad effort...

[george anson]

Originally Posted by richardoe

Im just watching a documentary on BBC1 about Simon Weston. Their showing pictures from wwi of "before and after" pictures from victims of facial injuries of wwi.

A salutary reminder of the horror of the war although these portraits only inspire the deepest of sympathy to the victims. The work of pioneering plastic surgeons at the Queen Mary Hospital, Sidcup with regards to the treatment of these wounds is covered here with the ever convivial Dr.Mosley in the series Blood & Guts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY9UrvednJE

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by george anson

A salutary reminder of the horror of the war although these portraits only inspire the deepest of sympathy to the victims. The work of pioneering plastic surgeons at the Queen Mary Hospital, Sidcup with regards to the treatment of these wounds is covered here with the ever convivial Dr.Mosley in the series Blood & Guts:

It is often thought that the Pioneering work done in Plastic Surgery began in the Second World War for fighter and aircrew following the Battle of Britain and beyond. It is good to see that the real originators are at last getting credit. No-one who has read my posts in the past will not know of the huge regard I have for Simon Weston, I have said before, he is without doubt, the most genuine, honest and unaffected man I have ever met, I am delighted that the National Portrait Gallery has just put his portrait on show.

Commissioned by the BBC, Simon was voted as the Person most deserving of being portrayed in the collection. Richly deserved.

[rustler]

In her excellent book, 'The Roses of No-mans Land', Lynn MacDonald mentions that many soldiers with facial disfigurements simply had to wear plaster masks painted to resemble facial features, when going out in public following WWI.

It doesn't bear thinking about.......

[rustler]

Today, 21st April, is the 96th anniversary of the death in action of Manfred von Richtofen, 'The Red baron'. Still one of the great mysteries of the war.

Last night I watched the film,'The Red Baron', which if it were a fictional tale like 'Aces High' would be a great film. Alas......

I never knew that von Richtofen shot down Roy Brown in 1916? Or the scene where von Hoepner simply throws Richtofen's Pour lé Merité round his neck. Or his being cheeky to the kaiser! Or the very last scene where Katie Ottersdorf comes out of Richtofens tent in her dressing gown in full view of everybody......... No, I don't think so, certainly not from what a know of him anyway.

It was a good enough film, but it should have been about a fictional character like the far better film 'The Blue Max'.


Anybody got any thoughts as to who actually shot him down? My feelings centre on Cedric Popkin. Certainly Brown was of the opinion that it couldn't have been he who brought him down, and his report mentions the action as being 'indecisive', his CO. altered the report. The newly formed RAF wanted the credit though.
Brown is also on record as mentioning seeing von Richtofens body just before it was buried, and that even though he was certain that it wasn't he who had brought him down he, 'Couldn't have felt greater sorrow'.

It was unfortunately to be many years before Richtofen could finally rest in peace, today he is buried in Weisbaden.

[Mal Hombre]

The general consensus is that it was ground fire that brought the Rittmeister down,But it in a way it was just that He'd been at it too long.Just like Mannock and McCudden He had passed beyond the "invulnerable"stage and like them should have withdrawn from active service.In His in prime Richthofen would never have pursued an enemy for so long and so low over enemy territory.

[rustler]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

The general consensus is that it was ground fire that brought the Rittmeister down,But it in a way it was just that He'd been at it too long.Just like Mannock and McCudden He had passed beyond the "invulnerable"stage and like them should have withdrawn from active service.In His in prime Richthofen would never have pursued an enemy for so long and for so low over enemy territory.

As I understand it, the powers that be wanted to retire von Richtofen from active duty. Immelman, Boelke, Voss were all gone and they didn't want the same thing to happen to von Richtofen. It was he who fought to stay at the front as I understand it.

In his memoirs he mentions that how could he, now that he was loaded by honours and decorations by a grateful nation, sit safely behind the lines when every other poor soldier was still having to fight it out in the trenches. He would have loathed it had he, as he put it himself, 'become a pensioner of my own dignity.'

As you say, he had lost that edge that he had in earlier years. Certainly he was never the same after being wounded in 1917, and I think he no longer had any illusions about surviving the war.

It was Raoul Lubrey who said, 'There will be no after the war for a fighter pilot.' I think that at this point in his life MvR would have shared that sentiment.

[knobby109]

Originally Posted by rustler

In her excellent book, 'The Roses of No-mans Land', Lynn MacDonald mentions that many soldiers with facial disfigurements simply had to wear plaster masks painted to resemble facial features, when going out in public following WWI.

It doesn't bear thinking about.......

For a lot of people the war didn't end when peace was declared.