Things Noticeable this week

[Nobody1]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Quite often the truth is ridiculous, but Spain was in fact neutral.

That is a rather crude understanding of neutrality.

'Although Spanish caudillo Francisco Franco did not officially bring Spain into World War II on the side of Nazi Germany, he permitted volunteers to join the German Army (Wehrmacht) on the condition they would only fight against the Soviet Union on the Eastern Front, and not against the Western Allies or any Western European occupied populations.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division#Origins

[Nobody1]

Btw, how are the Skripals? I heard about a magically fast 'miracle recovery' from the super-deadly and extremely dangerous British 'Novichok'.

Maybe May called some experts in Lourdes?

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

Btw, how are the Skripals? I heard about a magically fast 'miracle recovery' from the super-deadly and extremely dangerous British 'Novichok'.

Maybe May called some experts in Lourdes?

I'm sure they'll be happy to soon meet those nice people from the Russian Embassy who are so concerned about their wellbeing.

Or maybe return to Russia for a nice holiday this summer to help recover.
Maybe Putin's guests of honour at the footie.

[Rogerbh]

For those who might have missed the discussion in the WWII thread, Franco was mainly responsible for keeping Operation Felix on the drawing board. (never heard of this before I saw it on this forum) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Felix A little more cooperation with Spain there and with Japan in the invasion of Russia and the war might have been quite a bit different.

*It is rather amazing to me the information that I learn on a porn forum that I didn't pick up from the rest of my life.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Quite often the truth is ridiculous, but Spain was in fact neutral. Franco was unquestionably pro-Axis but he did not choose to join in, showing much more street-wisdom than the incurably vainglorious Mussolini.

Had Spain joined in when Hitler met Franco to negotiate for this in 1940 after the Fall of France, it would have been a terrible disaster for Britain and it was the one thing which could have made invasion of Britain achievable. A determined land assault on Gibraltar would have opened the Atlantic to Italian and Vichy French naval units and changed the naval balance in Hitler's favour. Britain's supply route to North America was already weakly defended and vulnerable; the loss of Gibraltar would have made this situation a lot worse.

Britain's ambassador to Spain during this crucial time was Sir Samuel Hoare; not a very nice chap actually, with a pro-fascist and pro-appeasement peacetime track record. But these very traits made him useful as Britain's ambassador to Franco as he managed to establish quite good relations with Franco and his ministers on a personal level exactly when Franco and the Germans were falling out. Churchill and Hoare were personal enemies and Churchill sent Hoare to Spain mainly to get rid of him; but afterwards Churchill never denied that Hoare gave a really important service to Britain by helping to persuade Franco to stay out of the war.

:LOL: !!!
That joke was good !!

Yeah, and with your next post you will tell me that all those fleeing Jews (Polish-, French-, Hungarian-, German- , ect.) from Spain were "highly welcome" in England, Palestrina, USA, Australia ect, ect ???
In reality they were at the most send back to sender.
Also Horty (Hungary) and Mussolini was not much into Hitlers hate on Jews.

Might be Hoare and Franco were good friends - I can't know.

But nevertheless, the decisions of this Megalomania (Hitler is meant) were sometimes (polite said) very mysterious and not even with logic; I'm reflecting about that he gave the English & part of French military the chance to flee over the channel.
Sure, Spain would have less of resistance, if he would Spain conquer too.

But it seems that's how Britons history is written. :LOL:

[bloke57]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

Btw, how are the Skripals? I heard about a magically fast 'miracle recovery' from the super-deadly and extremely dangerous British 'Novichok'.

Maybe May called some experts in Lourdes?

It shows how wonderful our NHS is. It's a triumph for public medicine so you should be pleased.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

:LOL: !!!
That joke was good !!

Yeah, and with your next post you will tell me that all those fleeing Jews (Polish-, French-, Hungarian-, German- , ect.) from Spain were "highly welcome" in England, Palestrina, USA, Australia ect, ect ???
In reality they were at the most send back to sender.
Also Horty (Hungary) and Mussolini was not much into Hitlers hate on Jews.

Might be Hoare and Franco were good friends - I can't know.

But nevertheless, the decisions of this Megalomania (Hitler is meant) were sometimes (polite said) very mysterious and not even with logic; I'm reflecting about that he gave the English & part of French military the chance to flee over the channel.
Sure, Spain would have less of resistance, if he would Spain conquer too.

But it seems that's how Britons history is written. :LOL:

How strange it is when facts meet "alternative facts".

When the legend becomes , print the legend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=363ZAmQEA84

Spain was neutral in WW2. That is a historic fact. America was also neutral in WW2 until December 7th 1941; this too is a historic fact. The character of their neutrality was chalk and cheese. Spain rooted for the Axis side and did a great deal to assist Hitler unofficially, whereas the FDR administration rooted for the Allied side, especially after France dropped out, and did a huge amount to assist Britain both officially and unofficially. Some countries, for example Switzerland, were not very keen to participate at all and would have preferred the whole thing to go away, but did show their teeth occasionally if their neutrality was violated.

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

Yeah, and with your next post you will tell me that all those fleeing Jews (Polish-, French-, Hungarian-, German- , ect.) from Spain were "highly welcome" in England, Palestrina, USA, Australia ect, ect ???
In reality they were at the most send back to sender.

Since you (not I) mention it, I have never denied that Britain and her Empire, which still existed then, was not at all an enthusiastic host to Jewish refugees. When I contemplate the Middle East today I can totally see that the reasoning of the British government has been vindicated by all the trouble which creating a Zionist state called Israel has created in the world. The British government correctly predicted that this was a bad idea and did its level best to prevent the creation of this state, using armed force to do so. But when the migration of European Jews away from Europe became a flood tide after the horrific events caused by Nazi domination of their former homes, Britain no longer had anything to say in the matter. After the holocaust began in earnest, it was inevitable that Israel would be created as a safe haven, so that such a vile thing could never be repeated.

Like I said, you mentioned this, so I commented. It can quite reasonably be argued that Spain did more to aid and rescue persecuted Jews in Europe than did Britain; certainly until 1945 when British forces started to liberate various unspeakable places such as Bergen Belsen and Neuengamme and their sub-camps.

Spain was neutral in WW2. She was deeply unfriendly to the European allies though she hated Japan and was much more friendly to the USA due to the Japanese occupation of the Philippines. Some of her people joined German forces in some kind of world fight against Communism and lie deservedly forgotten in unmarked graves somewhere in Russia; one hopes they did not die without first realising how stupid and wicked they had been. But Spain herself was never a belligerent in that war. Fact.

Just to remind ourselves why we are even talking about this on a Things Noticeable This Week thread, you have made the point that the past informs the events of today. My point is that the past is being mis-represented; we print the legend, not the facts. You seem to want to stick to the legend.

[Mal Hombre]

This would seem an appropriate point at which to adjourn any further discussion of this subject to the WW2 thread..

[bloke57]

I have noticed this week that it appears to be spring at last. Yesterday was the first evening I went out to feel the air indefinably different - no nip in the air and a fresh smell of growing buds.

Confirmed this morning - no nippy wind around my ears and I could get on by giving my lawn its first much-needed trim and starting on the hedges and forsythia.

Joy!

[vannax]

Originally Posted by bloke57

I have noticed this week that it appears to be spring at last. Yesterday was the first evening I went out to feel the air indefinably different - no nip in the air and a fresh smell of growing buds.

Confirmed this morning - no nippy wind around my ears and I could get on by giving my lawn its first much-needed trim and starting on the hedges and forsythia.

Joy!

Still winter here, snowed yesterday, and temperatures still dropping to 10 below freezing at night.