Atheist, are you one?? - Page 77

summaluva · July 27th, 2014, 03:28 PM

More of an Agnostic Pantheist
than an Atheist.

Though at one stage I did want to organize a posse and
hunt this God thing down and KILL IT !

comeon93 · July 27th, 2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Any creatures which must live together in social groups need to achieve understanding, cooperation and mutual trust. If this is how we define morals and ethics, then clearly animals need to be moral in order to achieve social cohesion.

There is also some empirical evidence that animals are capable of empathy and compassion. Dogs certainly do have this capacity. Human beings are highly evolved and developed animals, but we ignore our animal natures at our own risk. I am not ashamed of my animal nature, but I recognise the need to control it and not to be a mere brute; there's a difference. I don't think we should be disrespect the animals, even though we happen to be top of the food chain. Conversely, I would like to hope than regardless of whether or not one is a "believer" or an atheist, one has a spiritual nature too. I don't necessarily think that other animals lack a spiritual nature either, certainly not the more intelligent ones.

What is a spiritual nature? I've been a spiritual person for most of my entire life, but I no longer believe in a spirit. I still have "spiritual", moments, but that is just the result of chemical reactions within my brain, at least that's how I view these experiences now.

**howerd** · July 28th, 2014, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comeon93

What is a spiritual nature? I've been a spiritual person for most of my entire life, but I no longer believe in a spirit. I still have "spiritual", moments, but that is just the result of chemical reactions within my brain, at least that's how I view these experiences now.

It all depends on what 'spiritual' means but I see it as being 'in the spirit of' i.e. The way someone behaves. e.g. 'Spirits were high at my birthday party.' I have no problem with that - I can be in high spirits or low spirits - it's simply the way I feel.

'Spiritual' is a hard word to define. Richard Dawkins defines it as 'That which moves you at your deepest level.' I'd agree with that as long as it's something positive rather than negative like killing or harming people.

Yes I think we can be spiritual but I don't believe in the soul - mainly because no one can coherently define what it actually is -or how they can be sure. I see 'the spirit' as real i.e. the way you behave (& that's clearly real) but 'the soul' as merely an idea that there is some 'ghosty essence'

of you that survives death. There isn't a shred of verifiable evidence for this 'thing' whatever it is actually supposed to be!

**DTravel** · July 29th, 2014, 02:39 AM

IMO honest self-examination is a part, possibly a critical part, of spirituality.

BigTrain · August 3rd, 2014, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Human beings are highly evolved and developed animals, but we ignore our animal natures at our own risk. I am not ashamed of my animal nature, but I recognise the need to control it and not to be a mere brute; there's a difference. I don't think we should be disrespect the animals, even though we happen to be top of the food chain. Conversely, I would like to hope than regardless of whether or not one is a "believer" or an atheist, one has a spiritual nature too. I don't necessarily think that other animals lack a spiritual nature either, certainly not the more intelligent ones.

Human beings are not animals, just because we have similarities doesn't make us equal to them. We were created in the image of our heavenly Father, who is the one true God to all humanity past present and future, and eternity future.. We are above anything on this earth as God has stated in his word. He gave us dominion over them, animal;s do not have dominion over us. There is God who is above all, then angels, then man, then animals.

Even though animals possess the ability to have emotions, they are not spiritual in any way. Meaning, they don't possess a rational immortal soul like God gave humans. It takes a spiritual nature to understand (to a certain degree) the concept of our Creator.

**Wendigo** · August 3rd, 2014, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirChano

Human beings are not animals, just because we have similarities doesn't make us equal to them. We were created in the image of our heavenly Father, who is the one true God to all humanity past present and future, and eternity future.. We are above anything on this earth as God has stated in his word. He gave us dominion over them, animal;s do not have dominion over us. There is God who is above all, then angels, then man, then animals.
Even though animals possess the ability to have emotions, they are not spiritual in any way. Meaning, they don't possess a rational immortal soul like God gave humans. It takes a spiritual nature to understand (to a certain degree) the concept of our Creator.

If God gave us dominion over animals how come he spent so many hundreds of millions of years messing round with all the primitive life forms that led to the dominion of the earth by dinosaurs. Unless you are a Young Earth Creationist you will accept that we have been on this earth for a fraction of its existence. That doesn't make us that special as far as I am concerned.
As for Angels well I'm afraid you're in Ghosts, Bigfoot & Loch Ness Monster territory there.

BigTrain · August 3rd, 2014, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendigo

If God gave us dominion over animals how come he spent so many hundreds of millions of years messing round with all the primitive life forms that led to the dominion of the earth by dinosaurs. Unless you are a Young Earth Creationist you will accept that we have been on this earth for a fraction of it's existence. That doesn't make us that special as far as I am concerned.
As for Angels well I'm afraid you're in Ghosts, Bigfoot & Loch Ness Monster territory there.

Well, the Catholic church does not teach dogmatically that the earth is of any particular age or that God used any particular method to allow life to develop.

While we don't know the exact age of the earth, it is possible that God may have used evolution, but that is far from being certain. Scripture says that God made the earth in six days and rested on the seventh. But one day to us is not the same for God because there is no time in the spirit world. Scripture says "that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years* and a thousand years like one day"

God eventually created humans with an Immaterial immortal soul and gave them dominion over the everything on the earth. As for the heavenly host, or angels, they were also created by God sometime before the heavens were finished. They are supernatural beings that are far superior to humans and are messengers of God ad they watch over humanity. There is much in scripture that speaks of them.

**Wendigo** · August 3rd, 2014, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirChano

Well, the Catholic church does not teach dogmatically that the earth is of any particular age or that God used any particular method to allow life to develop.

While we don't know the exact age of the earth, it is possible that God may have used evolution, but that is far from being certain. Scripture says that God made the earth in six days and rested on the seventh. But one day to us is not the same for God because there is no time in the spirit world. Scripture says "that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years* and a thousand years like one day"

Although I am an atheist and I disagree I do accept that is the sensible way to argue your point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirChano

As for the heavenly host, or angels, they were also created by God sometime before the heavens were finished. They are supernatural beings that are far superior to humans and are messengers of God and they watch over humanity. There is much in scripture that speaks of them.

It seems to me they are doing a pretty poor job of watching over humanity for such superior beings. Not one of them bothered to intervene in the Crusades to say that they both worshipped the same God, the senseless destruction that was the First World War I, The Holocaust, Rwanda, Bosnia and a whole list of other incidents.

Sorry but there may be much in the scripture that speaks of them but there is not a single jot of any actual evidence other than hearsay.

BigTrain · August 3rd, 2014, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendigo

It seems to me they are doing a pretty poor job of watching over humanity for such superior beings. Not one of them bothered to intervene in the Crusades to say that they both worshipped the same God, the senseless destruction that was the First World War I, The Holocaust, Rwanda, Bosnia and a whole list of other incidents.

Sorry but there may be much in the scripture that speaks of them but there is not a single jot of any actual evidence other than hearsay.

Human sin has created the problems that we humans have to deal with on this earth. God gave us our free will to do what we want, as we are not mindless robots. We have the choice to do good or evil or to seek God or to not believe in Him. That is our choice and God respects that choice. We choose Heaven over Hell or Hell over Heaven.

Angels are messengers of God, ministering spirits. Angels can and have intervened in human affairs. But it's not going to happen we want it to. They do God's bidding and not ours or their own. As for evidence for angels outside of scripture, there is plenty. Science has already a long time ago proven to existence of the supernatural. A little research on that will help someone understand better.

**cicciobuki** · August 3rd, 2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirChano

Human sin has created the problems that we humans have to deal with on this earth. God gave us our free will to do what we want, as we are not mindless robots. We have the choice to do good or evil or to seek God or to not believe in Him. That is our choice and God respects that choice. We choose Heaven over Hell or Hell over Heaven.

Angels are messengers of God, ministering spirits. Angels can and have intervened in human affairs. But it's not going to happen we want it to. They do God's bidding and not ours or their own.

So these angels don't have free will while we have? And why do they meddle in human business if the human free will is such a big thing?

Quote:

As for evidence for angels outside of scripture, there is plenty.

Um, what??

Quote:

Science has already a long time ago proven to existence of the supernatural..

No it hasn't.

Can you give some examples of this 'scientific evidence' then?

Also, i just have to ask: are you trolling us or are you serious?

July 29th, 2014, 02:39 AM	#764
DTravel Lean Mean Screencap Machine Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Better you don't know. Posts: 23,817 Thanks: 10,480 Thanked 207,371 Times in 23,726 Posts	IMO honest self-examination is a part, possibly a critical part, of spirituality. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I rage and weep for my country. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I can reup screencaps, other material might have been lost.

July 27th, 2014, 03:28 PM	#761
summaluva Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: onanisland Posts: 266 Thanks: 4,874 Thanked 5,951 Times in 276 Posts	More of an Agnostic Pantheist than an Atheist. Though at one stage I did want to organize a posse and hunt this God thing down and KILL IT !