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Old 05-28-2017, 06:06 PM   #31
vinceprince
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There are many atheists who lead exemplary lives and do a ton of great works or charity work. The same is true for many "Christian's
But if someone primarily does something good or charitable for an assumed later 'reward' is it so exemplary?
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Old 05-28-2017, 06:37 PM   #32
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But if someone primarily does something good or charitable for an assumed later 'reward' is it so exemplary?
NO. It says in the Bible that by your works ye are known but by your faith you are saved. My understanding and belief is that if you are doing good to try and earn brownie points with God you lose.
Every one, believer or not, has some thing(s) (me) that they may have been forgiven for but will still need to answer after death. Just because a Christian may be forgiven for a "sin" they still have to answer for their actions.
I may have to answer for moderating this forum but I still do it.
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Old 05-28-2017, 07:58 PM   #33
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NO. It says in the Bible that by your works ye are known but by your faith you are saved. My understanding and belief is that if you are doing good to try and earn brownie points with God you lose.
Every one, believer or not, has some thing(s) (me) that they may have been forgiven for but will still need to answer after death. Just because a Christian may be forgiven for a "sin" they still have to answer for their actions.
I may have to answer for moderating this forum but I still do it.
The Bible says all sorts of stuff and can be used selectively to back up all sorts of opinions. But this seems very clear on the issue:

Hebrews 11:6

'And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him'

So the do gooders without faith look pretty well damned.
Doesn't look like a very charitable or forgiving God, more a vindictive one with a fragile ego, not one I have any faith in.
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Old 05-28-2017, 10:44 PM   #34
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The Bible says all sorts of stuff and can be used selectively to back up all sorts of opinions. But this seems very clear on the issue:

Hebrews 11:6

'And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him'

So the do gooders without faith look pretty well damned.
Doesn't look like a very charitable or forgiving God, more a vindictive one with a fragile ego, not one I have any faith in.
So true VP. You are now getting outside my knowledge base but I will try and respond.
The OT God was that way because He wanted to prevent religious contamination by allowing any of the conquered towns, cities, tribes, etc from corrupting His people with any pagan beliefs. Look through out civilization's history and you can find numerous times when letting other peoples in has ended up in that culture being corrupted or even destroyed. His people had already proven flighty with the golden calf and such. Not nice but study that period in history and not much was.
When Jesus came he changed things to a more understanding and benevolent tenet. Calling for forgiveness and living in peace. Obviously that has been well received through out Christian history.
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Old 05-29-2017, 02:06 AM   #35
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Like anyone ever changes their views here on anything anyway?
Well, I have. Some of the thread exchanges made me do some research, which then forced me to revise my opinion in light of additional information.

In fact, my views of religion and spirituality are in flux, partly because exchanges here have made me think more deeply and examine beliefs. My spiritual and ethical values are rooted in what I learned from my parents and grandparents and shaped by all those years of Catholic schooling. It is not likely they will really change. But, I did decide many years ago that I could not blindly submit to a guy in a white dress. It is extremely unlikely that I would ever revert, but I do hope to receive the sacrament of Extreme Unction when at death's door, just in case.
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Old 05-29-2017, 07:41 AM   #36
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But, I did decide many years ago that I could not blindly submit to a guy in a white dress. It is extremely unlikely that I would ever revert, but I do hope to receive the sacrament of Extreme Unction when at death's door, just in case.
But you wish to blindly submit to a guy in a white dress for eternity.

Give me sweet oblivion instead!
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Old 05-29-2017, 07:52 AM   #37
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So true VP. You are now getting outside my knowledge base but I will try and respond.
The OT God was that way because He wanted to prevent religious contamination by allowing any of the conquered towns, cities, tribes, etc from corrupting His people with any pagan beliefs. Look through out civilization's history and you can find numerous times when letting other peoples in has ended up in that culture being corrupted or even destroyed. His people had already proven flighty with the golden calf and such. Not nice but study that period in history and not much was.
When Jesus came he changed things to a more understanding and benevolent tenet. Calling for forgiveness and living in peace. Obviously that has been well received through out Christian history.
You do realise that Hebrews and that verse I cited is in the New Testament and was written by St Paul, the man who is really the founder of the Christian faith and wrote much of the New Testament. Paul had much more of an influence than Jesus or anyone else as to what is in the New Testament. His works have also been used, among other things, to justify homophobia, slavery and anti-Semitism.
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Old 05-29-2017, 07:54 AM   #38
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So true VP. You are now getting outside my knowledge base but I will try and respond.
The OT God was that way because He wanted to prevent religious contamination by allowing any of the conquered towns, cities, tribes, etc from corrupting His people with any pagan beliefs. Look through out civilization's history and you can find numerous times when letting other peoples in has ended up in that culture being corrupted or even destroyed. His people had already proven flighty with the golden calf and such. Not nice but study that period in history and not much was.
When Jesus came he changed things to a more understanding and benevolent tenet. Calling for forgiveness and living in peace. Obviously that has been well received through out Christian history.
So Ethnic Cleansing is OK if it's Your God doing it ? That period in History was a lot nicer before Your God instigated genocide.Jesus is just the murdering monster of the OT with a smiley face.
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Old 05-29-2017, 01:58 PM   #39
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So Ethnic Cleansing is OK if it's Your God doing it ? That period in History was a lot nicer before Your God instigated genocide.Jesus is just the murdering monster of the OT with a smiley face.
Hey Mal you need to hook up with Howerd to hammer me.
You are being a bit testy aren't you? I was just trying to answer a Q.

TTFE
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Old 05-29-2017, 04:43 PM   #40
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TTFE
No, don't do that, Santee!

I'm sure it's just the hot weather making people a bit too edgy.
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