Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

That said, I think I'd rather live in a state where the people in charge just want my money, rather then wanting to control what goes on inside my head and sending me off to the gulag for "thought crimes", should I feel like voicing any opinions about the shortcomings of their favored political system.

Bingo Although palo will come back and say Gulags were closed own in the 50's or whenever ... but it's the fact they were doing it

Even though I have some left views, some there is no way I want any system of controlling any persons desires or destiny.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Bingo Although palo will come back and say Gulags were closed own in the 50's or whenever ... but it's the fact they were doing it

Even though I have some left views, some there is no way I want any system of controlling any persons desires or destiny.

Ye4s, the gulags were closed down almost 70 years ago. Also, we never had offshore camps for people based on skin color

[MaxJoker]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Here is a forum with a huge majority of Anglo-Saxons.

Hah that`s where you`re wrong ,most of us are of Afro-Caribbean-Scotch-Eskimo descent.
Just as I am.
Which is why for breakfast this morning had watermelon deep fried heroin and raw seal blubber.

Originally Posted by xyzde69

So I suppose that you mainly hate communism. But why?

Consumerism is what I hate.
I like the idea of Communism.
In it`s purist most idealistic Socialistic form. Although considering it`s never been put into proper action (Aside from gunning down "Royalty"). I can't judge how it`d pan out. Still it`s got to be better that the Capitalism regime most of us toil under to no noticeable benefit. Other than bearing witness to the world slowly sinking under the weight of civilizations charade.

[Mal Hombre]

The trouble with Communism is that it goes against human nature,That means that on national level it always has to be imposed by force,It can work in a small commune,However

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

The trouble with Communism is that it goes against human nature...

Depends how you define "human nature"

I mean, you could say capitalism was in line with human nature, and justify it by saying there are cannibals, and it's only natural

[Brecht]

One of the most commonly raised arguments against communism is the question of the so-called human nature. Like all things in nature, human thought and society are in a constant state of change. The comparison may be too dull but think of pop-cultural and consumerist trends. What used to be fashionable and cool in the previous decades is laughed at today. Those trends and attitudes are not natural. They are shaped and created by a large and powerful PR industry.

If you were born in the 15th century, you'd think that feudalism is the result of a divine order (and human nature) that cannot be changed. You may similarly argue that democracy, the right to vote etc. are not compatible with human nature. Our attitudes and worldviews have changed so many times throughout history that it doesn't make much sense to look for some universal notion of human nature.

It's not true that humans are naturally greedy. No one is born greedy. It's a "virtue" planted in our consciousness by our environment and the conditions we grow up in. Humans rose to the top of the food chain not by greed but cooperation. Only by combining our resources were we able to achieve what we call civilization.

Marx and Engels explained that in any society, the dominant ideology is that of the dominant political and social class. The economically dominant class has the power and wealth to spread the ideology that serves its class interests. They dictate how far we can go with out political thinking. As soon as their ideology is seriously challenged, they'll accuse every critic of extremism. Take the example of Jeremy Corbyn in Britain. His ideas are not communist or even socialist. He's just a genuine social democrat but even that is "extremist" according to the corporate mainstream press.

But what is communism? Well, first we have to understand that a communist society has not been established yet. A communist state is an oxymoron. The main objective of communism is the common ownership of the means of production and the abolishment of private property (of the means of production, not your car, house or smartphone ), social classes, money and the state. As you see there is no communist states and never has been because the state no longer exists in communism. For Marx the communist society is "an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." It's a society based on an association of free and equal producers. Class antagonisms and the exploitation of man by man will no longer exist.

Communism is not a utopian pipe dream. Marxism is also known as scientific socialism. In order to fight for socialism (an intermediary between capitalism and communism), you'll have to study economy, philosophy, history, technology etc. with a thorough scientific approach. You can't establish socialism just because you're pissed off and feel like starting a revolution. Revolutions happen when a system has hit the wall and when the only solution is its replacement with a more advanced system. For example, industry couldn't have flourished within a system of feudal property relations. Only capitalism was able to liberate the emerging means of prodution of the time and increase their potential and productivity. But capitalism has reached its limits. It has become a large force of destruction, oppression and exploitation. The era of expansion and prosperity is long gone. There are no new markets to conquer except by force.

Will there be a revolution? Will communism ever be achieved? We can't know as we're no prophets and neither was Marx. But it's my conviction that communism is worth fighting for if we want to become a civilization free of war, hunger, slavery, racism, exploitation, religious superstition, illiteracy etc. A civilization in which reason, knowledge, respect and solidarity are what future generations will recognize as human nature.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Brecht

It's not true that humans are naturally greedy. No one is born greedy.

I agree with 99% of what you wrote, but not on this point.

But greed is probably like altruism, sadism or schizophrenia. All these characters are natural and are more or less important according to the individual.

Then you have cultural greed and pathological greed.
You can fight the first by altruism, the second by medical treatment.

The main problem is that some pathological human characters are difficult to be observed and to be treated.
That's probably why we are runned by masked psychopaths or narcissistic people and we follow them like sheeps, because they know how to manipulate the majority.

Originally Posted by MaxJoker

Consumerism is what I hate.

I totally agree with you. That's probably one of the most dangerous ideologies. Probably more dangerous than capitalism itself.
Sadly it seems it was the way that the generations of our fathers and grandfathers had to follow and that we have to diverge asap.

Is a good socialism or good communism nothing else as a well regulated capitalism?

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by palo5

Depends how you define "human nature"

I mean, you could say capitalism was in line with human nature, and justify it by saying there are cannibals, and it's only natural

Was the way of life very different when you changed your First Secretaries?
Did you observe differences in the Russian society between Stalin, Malenkov, Khrushchev or Brezhnev, or was it exactly the same Communism?

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by palo5

Ye4s, the gulags were closed down almost 70 years ago. Also, we never had offshore camps for people based on skin color

But you still have Siberian penal colonies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bour-camp.html

Actually, those pics remind me of working on the farm. Probably not a truly horrible life as long as you are getting enough food to eat and have a warm place to sleep - especially in Siberia. Brrrrr.

On a "capitalist" dairy farm you still have to go out and spend two or three hours feeding the cows and milking them when it is 10 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. Not so fun, but bearable.

I'll bet it would be like hell for someone who has always lived a relatively plush life in the city though.

[cginok]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Ironically, since communism fell in Eastern Europe and the former USSR, capitalism in the west has become more and more unrestrained, leading to a drop in the quality of life for many Americans. Those of us old enough to remember the Cold War from the 80s and earlier remember the constant barrage of propaganda about how the evil Soviets were hellbent on destroying our freedom and way of life. Hmmmm.

That said, I think I'd rather live in a state where the people in charge just want my money, rather then wanting to control what goes on inside my head and sending me off to the gulag for "thought crimes", should I feel like voicing any opinions about the shortcomings of their favored political system.

Although I suppose that if capitalism went far enough, they'd expect that from me as well in the end. Damn all power-mongers.

That's because, for almost a half a century, workers in the West/USA were protected from having to compete with workers behind the iron/bamboo curtain. When the Cold War ended, those restraints ended. The average worker in the USA cannot compete, from a wage stand point, with cheaper workers in China/Asia. Even if you paid every single American worker $5 a hour, it would still be cheaper to produce widgets in Burma than in Burlington.