Organized Photo shoots

[Ozzmman]

Heya everyone,

Fabulous Forum by the way..

Following on from 'Greatparnips' Thread of experiences of various models, i wondered if anyone else here had gone on organized photo shoots in London in the early 90's, this was a great way to shoot lots of models (some well known) in a smallish group, for very little money, if you did post here and maybe we can compare notes etc, not sure how i stand copyright wise to post photo's, although i did have a very small selection of my own local models.

Ozzy

[ukcarter]

Yes, I went to a fair number of shoots organised by Pat Wynn and got to shoot Stacey Owen, Danica, Vicky Lee, Kathy Shannon, Debee Ashby and many more delightful and well known young ladies.

I miss those shoots - the atmosphere was very friendly and the quality of models top notch.

I think by default, copyright belongs to the photographer not the model as it counts as "work for hire" - unless agreed otherwise beforehand (eg signing a model release releasing her from the default case). However, in organised shoots I suspect the copyright is retained by the organiser? But I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV so I may be very wrong.

I'll assume I do not have copyright until somebody (eg Pat) tells me I do. Alas, in any case I have a few thousand negatives that are gradually fading and no decent film scanner.

However, I think "fair use" of discussing the topic allows me to post a small thumbnail of what was possible even when surrounded by a dozen or so photographers jostling for position if one is prepared to wait for the moment.

[Ozzmman]

Heya,

great to find someone, who also attended these, as you said a relaxed and friendly atmosphere, i particulary liked the midday meal with all the models & photographers down the local pub, and luckily i sat with organizer ,Barry jones i believe it was.

I've also shot Kathy shannon, Debee ashby, Gayner Goodman,Lee goss,Vida Garman etc, and found them very pleasant and helpful to work with.

I may post the one or two shots, but if someone yells then i'll remove them, i've first got to work out how..any advice greatly appreciated.

I have several thousand Negatives and Transparencies, it takes some time just to scan one.

I miss them too, wish we could have them again, i believe a foreign trip was also organized, but never went on it.

There are one or two models who i'm not sure of the names of, must have been me, constantly going from set to set.

Ozzy

[dasduffer]

Nice thread guys. Would be great to see some 'new' stuff from these
girls you mentioned however can understand because of copyright etc
it may be difficult. Out of interest, how many pics did you take, how
long did you get with the girls, how much did it cost you etc?

[Ozzmman]

It's quite a long way back now, but if i remember correctly, it was around the 40-50 pound mark, which included dinner at the local pub, usually ran from around 10-11am till nearly 5pm, an all day affair with around 2 to 3 different sets.

Could take as many pics as you could, i know sometimes i used 20 rolls of film, i had a go at processing my own, until one or two went wrong, so then sent them to a professional developing lab, i shot on 35mm and 120 rollfilm.

At the time i didn't realize that some of the models i had in my viewfinder, had done hardcore stuff,such as Tracy Gibb, that was a real eyeopener.

ozzy

ps. this is my first thread, i decided to become more proactive, because this is my favorite forum, and i'd like to give something back.

[slut-lover]

I once attended one on a boat on Themsen. Big boobs was the mantra. I was very young but I still miss these opportunities to the degree that I have taken upon my own to recreate them. Three times I have travelled to London and hired some models to perform adulterated sex with them in front of the camera. The thing is that I had to rely on handheld cameras or the remote control function. Not the ultimate working condtions but I did enjoy it.

Ozzy (the other one)

When I read the first post in this thread I for a short moment believed that I was the author. The content and the name... Spooky.

[ukcarter]

Originally Posted by dasduffer

Out of interest, how many pics did you take, how
long did you get with the girls, how much did it cost you etc?

Pat Wynn's "Double D Club" shoots were held in a variety of studios, mostly now defunct I believe. The exception to this was a professional's studio we used where we often took advantage of sets that he had created for shoots of his own. Lighting would always be set up with two brollies producing a flat light, f/8 @ 100asa so the model's position wasn't critical, triggered with on camera flash bounced off the ceiling.

Pat would invite three or four models and two or three might be working one per set and there might be 20 or 30 photographers who would divide themselves between the sets. From time to time Pat would join in herself - especially if a model was late. The day kicked off at 11, lunch 1-2 and the shooting until 4-5 I think - the last hour was usually winding down with two-girl shoots? The times all very "ish". Buffet lunch in the studio chatting with the models.

Each model seemed to work to their own limits - typically "uk magazine". Once or twice "us magazine" but never stronger. Vicky Lee was often topless only - except for a shoot one December when I remember Kathy Shannon shouting at her to "get your knickers off - it's Christmas" and there was a sudden increase in interest!

The day ended up with a raffle where the three winners would win the opportunity to remove a suspender belt, a bra and knickers from the models.

How well it worked depended on the model. The canny ones would adopt a pose and hold it while looking along the line one at a time so everybody could get a shot and you would do quite well if you composed and focused and then waited for eye contact before final focus and shot. Others would look around a random, shifting poses and often paying most attention to the noisiest. Two-girl shoots were usually hopeless from the point of view of getting good shots - the odds of getting both models looking at you at the same time was negligible.

I reckoned on shooting about eight rolls - so about 280 shots. I had my own colour darkroom and it would take me a day to produce 4 10x8 prints so you got to be pretty critical of sharpness and composition before deciding to print a shot. I reckoned on getting 6 shots per roll that were worth printing but only having time to print one or two per roll.

Once a year, the shoot would take place on a boat trip but my diary never matched up with the dates alas!

I'd love to discover similar format shoots today - most shoots these days seem far more rigid and don't have the same class of model. In general, today's models often come with tattoos, implants, piercings and those awful perspex platform shoes. Tower Studios used to do something similar until a few years ago but then disappeared.

[Ozzmman]

Heya guys,

Sounds like the same kind of format, places on the ones i went to were more limited i think, somewhere in the region of 12 to 15 guys, i'm sure i saw some them with video cameras, would like to have seen some of the vids now.

Hey 'Slut-lover' don't forget to include us guys next time..

'Uk Carter' i do miss those shoots too, wish i could relive them, i also looked at going to the Tower studios shoots, but as you say they seemed a bit strict,not like the relaxed shoots of old, wish someone would start up again, i'd really like to shoot Louise Hodges..

Heres another little 'sample' of a shot of Vida Garman, Lee Goss and well i not sure of the name of the one at the back, it may have been Maria, they were all great fun though, i see from my numbering system that this was taken in December 1990.

[Ozzmman]

Hiya all

Heres another little sample, i'll give it a couple of weeks and if there are no objections then i will post some more sizeable pics, if you guys want them of course.

[bevpic]

Has the internet has complicated the copyright situation somewhat? In the UK the photographer owns the copyright unless he/she expressly granted it to the model or a third party (& can therefore publish at will), whereas in the US, a model release form is legally required, whereby the model grants the photograher permission to publish. That's perhaps why so many sites have fairly convoluted disclaimers - eg, only look at this if it's legal wherever you are?