Things Noticeable this week

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by gordian_knot

Ultimately, you can't hold people by force. It would have been a disaster if we'd denied Scotland a referendum and then sent in the police to beat up voters..

You might have a different view of this if you had been in Scotland during the 2014 referendum campaign and thus been exposed to the violent, racist and intimidatory behaviour of the SNP supporters.

No more referendums anywhere or on any subject whatsoever - all they do is highlight divisions and solve nothing.

[AmateurEmale]

Here are several things noticeable this week:

I survived bariatric surgery with a great medical team and a highly rated, Middle Eastern surgeon who operated on me. The worst part was catheter removal from my male organ: I felt like "Wee Willie Winkie" for about a day or two after hospitalization. Twice I have still had an air bubble pass through the urethra and make a slight burst into the toilet bowl, possibly because the nurse drained my bladder very rapidly at the hospital. She must have been disappointed that such a pornographer would have a small-looking pud, ever.

But it's only temporary, and I see my doctor in about ten days.

[Puhbear69]

- about 844 people were injured in the police violences in just one day.

- Rubber bullets from the side of the police were involved too.

- a unknown number of voters were hampered of giving their vote.

- Catalan trade unions called a general strike on Tuesday.

That all obviously has been necessary to "enforce the Spanish law by the Spanish police" as one member has written. In a democracy notabene.
Another member wrote that it seemed to exist a lot of the "General Franco spirit" in the actual Spanish government, what is hitting much more the point. IMHO. :

About the Catalan vote:
Catalan officials said:
The turnout of the vote has been 42%.
About 90% of these voters were backing the independence.

Like I said in a post before: there are big doubts because of these numbers.

The days of the government of Mariano Rajoy seems to be finished at those issues.

[southernboy]

I really love this picture. It was taken yesterday amid Spanish government display of "proportionate" (as they say) use of force against Catalan voters (well, in fact they said we weren't voting). In San Iscle de Vallalta (a small town 50 km aprox. from Barcelona), when riot police arrived people hid the ballot boxes and pretended they were running a domino tournament
I love the surrealistic, almost Magrittean atmosphere of the image.
Spanish government discourse is also surrealistic, but we are already used to it.

[rupertramjet]

There were two things I noticed about the Catalan assault, firstly the local Police officers took no part, and appeared to be both embarrassed and disgusted by the behaviour of the National Gestapo, sorry Police.

Secondly, that in a non lethal situation, these so called trained officers were way off the leash. What do I know? I faced the violence of nail bombs, petrol bomb, stone, rock and the odd bullet on the streets of Northern Ireland, and am proud to say that we never lost control the way they did, and the rioters were actually trying to kill us!

A disgrace to Spain and proof absolute that Francos rule still rules!

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by southernboy

I really love this picture. It was taken yesterday amid Spanish government display of "proportionate" (as they say) use of force against Catalan voters (well, in fact they said we weren't voting). In San Iscle de Vallalta (a small town 50 km aprox. from Barcelona), when riot police arrived people hid the ballot boxes and pretended they were running a domino tournament
I love the surrealistic, almost Magrittean atmosphere of the image.
Spanish government discourse is also surrealistic, but we are already used to it.

Yes, that picture with the fully equipment of the Spanish police is saying more than thousand words.

Nevertheless I would call the Catalan government as selfish with their referendum, because like it is said, that Catalonia is the strongest economical region in Spain (but I don't know for sure).

But it would have been much more intelligent for the Spanish government to let the Catalan vote by so many people, as the forecasts were saying it was not a majority of the Catalan who were voting at least for independence. It had been a risk of course, but as the result they were at this point much farer away of an independence than before.
All that would have been peacefully solved in the Spanish parliament and at the constitutional court.

I fear, the opposite issue we do have now and the brutality of the police have changed it , it had been a moral victory for the selfish Catalan government.

At least it's - like I said - the end of the Spanish government of Rajoy.

[Devius]

Originally Posted by Devius

Catalonia has 'won right to statehood'

Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says region has won right to independence after Sunday's contentious referendum

Details:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41463719

Catalonia's independence campaign appears to gather momentum...

In a TV address, Spain's King Felipe VI has condemned organisers of Catalonia's independence referendum for having put themselves "outside the law".

He said the situation in Spain was "extremely serious", calling for unity.

Hundreds of thousands in Catalonia have been protesting over Spanish police violence during Sunday's vote, during which nearly 900 people were hurt.

Meanwhile, Catalonia's leader told the BBC the region will declare independence in a matter of days.

Details:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014

[CARLTON BROWN]

Originally Posted by Devius

Catalonia's independence campaign appears to gather momentum... Catalonia's leader told the BBC the region will declare independence in a matter of days.

I think the extremely heavy handed approach by the national police virtually assured that things would go in this direction and the situation may well get much worse soon. How the EU leadership would respond to the Catalonian leaders being arrested and perhaps troops being deployed on a significant scale is hard to say, but it seems like a possibility to me.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by CARLTON BROWN

I think the extremely heavy handed approach by the national police virtually assured that things would go in this direction and the situation may well get much worse soon. How the EU leadership would respond to the Catalonian leaders being arrested and perhaps troops being deployed on a significant scale is hard to say, but it seems like a possibility to me.

How could the EU do ?

They have not the right to intermeddle in the domestic policy of a EU member, as long as Spain does not a breach of law in the matter of the EU-contracts (see Poland and Hungary in an other case).

Of course they can try to calm down the the situation between the Spanish- and Catalan governments - like any of the EU-members (Countries) can do.
I think they will do soon but their tools are limited.
The EU - I think - doesn't want a splitting, because it would give a bad example for other regions of the EU.

The Spanish government says, the Catalan are having breach the Spanish constitutional law with their demand of independence. On the other hand they have tried a democratic way (badly interrupted from the Spanish police :head-shaking: ). How else can they do; the alternative would be a bloody civil war. And no one who is having their five senses together can want this.

Is the claim of independence of the Catalan government selfish ? I would answer this with a clear "YES" !
True is too, that the Spanish government is trying to surf economically on the back of the Catalan, which is economically the strongest region in Spain (so it's said). And -IMHO- there is a little swing for negotiations.

It looks like a squaring of a circle.

[rupertramjet]

I expect our non elected Fuhrer Jean Claude Junker, will start his usual hysterical rhetoric, he will probably try to force other EU Member states to send the much vaunted EU military in as peace keepers, and probably with rules of engagement to attack all Catalans wearing their Catalan Colours and to support the Spanish Police in any act of barbarism they wish to carry out against the civil population, bit like the 1930s again.

Or am I showing my dislike for the EU, and its non democratic existence? By the way Puhbear, it is the constant interference by the EU, in our domestic policy which in part is the cause of Brexit, the EU Commission do what they like, to whom they like, because they believe they can. Remind you of any part of History?